Webelos scout with issues

[Eagle92]

Oak,

Actually I know of a leader who violated G2SS, i.e. he let Scouts ride in the back of the truck at a council event, that had major insurance problems with BSA. I don't know if it was the accident insurance or the liability insurance that wouldn't cover the accident (I beleive it was the BSA's liabuility insurance that wouldn't cocver it), but the gentleman eventually had his membership revoked.

 

This caused me an unbeleivable amount of grief as the accident happened before I arrived in the district as the DE, yet I had to deal with the consequences with my volunteers. SE and DFS kept everything close to the vest, and I had to learn about the accident and lawsuit to reinstate membership via the local newspaper reports. Heck the SE and DFS didn't even tell me when the court reinstated him while the lawsuit was pending (this was pre-Dale decision in 1998). Lot of Scouters were very concerned, and some viewed the revokign of membership as payback from the SE and DFS as the volunteer was a very long-time Scouter who was critical of some of the decisions and policies of the council. Most of my volounteers viewed this as revenge.

[Oak Tree]

Eagle92,

 

As you point out, the fallout from certain events can overshadow who has the legal right to do what.

 

The biggest fallout is that the kid got hurt. I'm presuming it was fairly bad, for it to get to this level of dispute.

 

Does the SE have the right to revoke someone's membership? Generally yes. Doesn't mean it's a good idea (or a bad one).

 

Could the SE share the info with his DEs? I would think yes, normally he could, and should. Might depend on advice from his lawyers, though.

 

Will the insurance cover him? Here you say that one of the insurance policies wouldn't cover it. I feel like there might be more to the story here. We'd want to know which policies were in force at the time. Was it that one policy didn't cover it but the other did? Were they trying to get his own personal insurance policy to cover it first? I have no doubt that he had problems with the insurance companies, trying to sort everything out.

 

From Training the COR: Local Council Responsibilities: ... Provide primary general liability insurance to cover the chartered organization and its board, officers, chartered organization representative, and employees against all personal liability judgments. This insurance includes attorney's fees and court costs as well as any judgment brought against the individual or organization. Unit leaders are covered in excess of any personal coverage they might have, or if there is no personal coverage, the BSA insurance immediately picks them up on a primary basis.

 

Here's a long discussion about what typically is not covered by general liability policies in Pennsylvania: http://www.margolisedelstein.com/files/gallogly_4-08_cglexclusions-pamic_copy.pdf . This is only a typical list - we don't know what is actually excluded on the BSA master policy (or at least, I don't). The document lists intentional acts, and adds a few other items like:

- acts of war (there goes my planned trip to visit Afghani Scouts),

- inability to use electronic data (I guess if you accidentally destroy a Scout's computer, it will pay for the computer, but nothing for the fact that he didn't get into Harvard because you destroyed the only copy of his college application essay)

- pollution (I guess it's somehow conceivable that you could accidentally pollute a substantial property as a Scout leader)

- anything against public policy (which pretty much is included with intentional acts)

- costs for breaking a contract

- anything that overlaps with a bunch of other coverages (e.g., auto insurance)

- a bunch of other things that appear to mostly apply to businesses

 

Nowhere does it say anything like "injuries that arise from not following the rules", or "injuries that arise from negligence", or stupidity, or "things that could possibly be foreseen."

 

I would be very curious to see what the BSA policy said and how it was possibly interpreted that he should not be covered. Do you know for sure that he ended up unprotected by any insurance coverage?

[Eagle92]

Oak,

Good commentary and questions. Since the event happened 12 years ago and I wasn't there, all I have to go by is hearsay from the volunteers, the questions I was asked in reference to insurance at events (and tehre was alot of those b/c of the inicdent above) and what I read in the newspaper about the courtcase.

 

In reference to the accident itself, I don't know if it was bad or not, but there was no legal action against the council becuase of it, other than the Scouter suing to be reinstated as a leader.

 

In reference to the insurance, again I don't know what type was involved. There may have been more involved though as I heard hearsay about other insurance matters being involved, and the SM was questioning why they were not implemented. Again that is hearsay.

 

As for why the DE wasn't kept informed, I can understand keepign some thigns close to the chest, but when a DE doesn't find out a person is reinstated as a leader until after he sees the guy in uniform at a RT, there is a major disconnect.

 

I will say this from what I have gathered and knowing how the SE and DFS worked, I agree with the volunteers that the rescinding of membership was to get rid of a troublesome leader.