What ever happened to Scouting Pride???

[BrentAllen]

OGE,

I'm sure that was some old, dead guy - either Ben Franklin or maybe Theodore Roosevelt.

 

Are you saying the problem is no one is holding our youth to a higher standard? No one is expecting much of them? Hmmmm. This always come back to doing the minimum, to me. Apparently many in the BSA teach it, so why should we expect any more?

 

From our Visitor Packet for Scouts who are considering joining our Troop:

 

Expectations of Members

 

This Troop is committed to being one of the finest and most active Troops ever started. We must measure up with the best Troops in the Council. Every Scout in it must be right on the job all of the time to be the best kind of a Scout he can.

 

Most important is the Scout Oath to which every member subscribes when he joins. Unless you feel sure that you want to live up to this Oath the very best you can, you shouldnt be a Scout.

 

Troop 494 offers boys an environment in which everyone can feel secure both physically and emotionally. Scouts will treat others as they wish to be treated. Name-calling, put-downs, discrimination or any form of physical aggression will not be tolerated.

 

Scouts recognize they have an obligation to the members of their Patrol and Troop. When a Scout is absent, he leaves his Patrol mates short. If a Scout cannot attend a meeting or outing, he should notify his Patrol Leader as soon as possible.

 

Scouts are encouraged to participate in activities outside of Scouting. If a Scout has a long-term conflict, such as during a sports season, he should notify the Scoutmaster. The Scout will be encouraged to attend meetings and campouts when possible, but he will most likely not be able to fulfill the requirements of a Position of Responsibility (POR) during such an absence.

 

Scouts of Troop 494 wear the complete, correct uniform to meetings, and to and from campouts, unless otherwise directed. This includes the Scout shirt, Scout pants/ shorts, Scout belt and Scout socks.

 

Yes sir, yes maam, no sir, no maam, thank you, please will be used by all Scouts and Scouters.

 

The real price of membership in this Troop will be unfailing regular attendance at its meetings, and steady progress in all the things that make a Scout Prepared. If the Troop Leaders put their own time into the activities of this Troop we shall certainly expect you to do your part with equal faithfulness.

 

***********************************************************************

We set a high bar, and we get results.

[Eamonn]

I'm willing to bet my last dollar that the Scouts who return home from next yeas Jamboree will be very proud.

I'm sure that most of the Scouts who attend one of the High Adventure bases are very proud of both themselves and of the organization that they belong to.

Each and every Sea Scout that I know who has attended SEAL and done well seems to have a certain spring in his or her step.

Scouting Pride?

Like just about everything that has to do with Scouts and Scouting, at the end of the day it comes down to three things.

Program, Program, Program.

Ea.

[Lisabob]

Granted, there are some image issues associated with middle school aged boys (or girls, for that matter) in scouting. Still, when I talk with boys about what they do and don't care for, they almost never tell me that they don't like to camp, or go canoeing, or go climbing, or a hundred other "scout" activities.

 

What they don't like:

- boring meetings

- the uniform

- adults who harp on them all the time

- adults using them as pawns, or tokens, while pretending to let the boys make decisions for themselves

- long-winded lectures

- rituals that lack meaning for them (even if they have meaning to a previous generation)

- things they have to do in order to get a check-off, rather than because they want to do them or understand the value in doing them

- having to deal with nasty kids (when scouts becomes Lord of the Flies)

- failure, or fear of failure

- programs or activities that are poorly executed and so don't deliver what was promised (feeling gypped)

- unfairness/injustice and inter-adult drama

(This message has been edited by lisabob)

[Daddy_O]

LB,

 

Wow. You said a lot...

 

--D_O

[IM_Kathy]

my son loves scouts and is proud to be in it - the only time he doesn't like to wear his uniform is in our town because he is no longer a member of the troop in our town but rather in another town. when he heard that at 18 he could no longer be a boy scout he was bummed because that means he couldn't be a boy scout during his senior year (September birthday) but when I told him he could always become an Assistant Scoutmaster and work with the troop as an adult he got really excited and thought that would be cool.

 

my daughter loves girl scouts, but her troop is the first troop in all the years we've been involved (so 11 years) that has stayed a troop with active girls in high school... she doesn't broadcast that she's a scout and won't wear her vest until she gets to the events. However this way of being does suddenly change when it becomes cookie selling time. Being the only few girls in the high school they sit down and divide up all the teachers to hit up and hit up all their friends and suddenly word spreads and kids starting bringing in their parent's orders.

[Scoutfish]

That's a very fine point indeed Novice!

 

"Perhaps scouting pride is linked to actually wanting to be a scout?

 

How many scouts that have no pride would really prefer to quit?

Followup question - but can't quit because mom & dad won't let them, or because cash or a drivers license is the inducement?

 

How many adults have pride in something they don't care about?"

 

Now that I think about it, I remember back when I was 15 or 16 years old. My best friend was a Scout. He hated it!

Why? Because every other day, his dad commented about how "If you don't make Eagle early , your not getting your driver's license when you turn 16.

Not only did his dad hold Eagle over his head, but expected him to get it earlier than others were.

My friend loved scouts until his dad made it his own thing.

I guess his dad was living through his son!

[OldGreyEagle]

The quote is atributed to Socrates, I guess Civilization has gone downhill ever since

 

Speaking of Scouting Pride.

 

At the Northeast Region Area 5 Leadership Conference, one of the speakers, Tico perez mentioned that Mike Rowe (the guy from Dirty Jobs and ubiquitous Ford commercials is filming a TV show, "Are you tougher than a Boy Scout". mr what Mr Perez said this is part of a program National BSA has about making the BSA prominent, it may help

 

[Knot Head]

It starts at the top. If adults proudly wear the uniform the kids will typically follow.

 

If the adults are not proud you're sunk.

[Lisabob]

I think scouting pride has to do with a lot more than wearing a uniform. I'm with Eamonn. It is about program.

[Scoutfish]

So after reading many replies, I have come to realize how much I love this site.

 

My son is only a Bear Scout right now, but one day in the future, I may have to deal with all of this.

I am just an active parent right now who has already filled out and turned in an application. I plan on becoming a Den Leader with at least a year of ADL first.

Anyway, to the point:

 

At our Pack Meetings, the very first thing we do is Rise and watch the color guard come into the meeting hall. Then we salute / scout salute the flag and say The Pledge of Allegiance. Then we say the scout promise, followed by the scout motto. Then we sit down.

 

Then one of our more nuerotic ( I'm just kidding!) DL's will jump up, ask everybody to stand back up again, and lead us into a song, dance, something to get us riled up a bit, Then we sit down again. All the parents are involved too.......

 

Except maybe a big handfull who didn't stand and salute the flag, recite the Pledge of Allegiance, say any mottos, promises or anything else. Matter of fact, they hardly even paid attention to it. Maybe it was because they were staring at the ceiling in total boredom? Maybe because they just absolutely had to answer their cell phone and recapp the ball game or who won the race the day before.

 

Maybe they just didn't want to stand up because everybody else would see that ratty , torn up "S#$@ HAPPENS!" ( in big blazing letters) t shirt they were wearing?

 

Like I said, this site, and especially this topic have really made me think hard.

 

So where is the pride in scouting gone?

I don't know for sure, but I bet it's hard to be proud of something, when your parents won't do it themselves , and treat it like a joke!(This message has been edited by scoutfish)

[Beavah]

Yah, I'm with da Lisabob and BrentAllen, eh?

 

If yeh don't see a pride in scouting in your boys, yeh need to start by looking in the mirror.

 

Odds are you're associatin' pride with stuff that you care about as adults, from ceremonies to adult drama, and as a result you're robbin' your kids of the chance to be genuinely proud of da things they really care about.

 

Never seen a strong youth-led program where adults both listened to kids and set high expectations where the lads weren't proud of their troop.

 

Yeh also shouldn't confuse pride with public shows, eh? Real pride as often as not is a private thing. Yeh can be deeply proud of somethin' without bragging about it in public or wearin' it on your sleeve.

 

As to da mores of society at large, most of the rude folks I know aren't young people. They're older folks who are ornery, inconsiderate, and set in their ways. Yeh rarely hear young people makin' racist or sexist comments, but it's still part and parcel of da behavior of a lot of older folks. And close as I can tell da young folks have a much less shrill and partisan view of politics than a lot of us old timers.

 

I reckon real scouting pride and real courtesy and values are doin' just fine with our scouts. It's us old folks who should be removin' the logs from our eyes rather than worryin' about da motes in theirs.

 

Beavah

[scouter6]

Our biggest age to lose Scouts is during Middle school years. It ain't cool, sports are really kicking off, teasing kicks in about scouts, fights get started. Then to high school-- freshman year- it starts to get easier about being a scout then easier as the years go. Partly due to the teachers that hear and know about the eagle rank. But some youth still don't want it broadcast-ed that he's a scout. Others are proud and don't care if its known. Some of the kids that did the teasing in middle school now would say- scouts eh? okay for you, that's your thing.

[Scoutfish]

While trher is more to pride than the uniform, the uniform is a great sign of pride. I don't think a uniform will foster or inhibit pride.

It is my beliefe that the uniform is a symbol of pride.

If you are proud of what you do, and what group you belong to...you will wear that uniform!

 

As a former asst fire/ water rescue chief of a beach town, we used to practice and hold training right next to, and on the beach. We luanched at public boat ramps and during toursit seasn, wre definantly in the public eye. We'd have Jr fire fighters from other counties, across the sate and as far as 5 states away stop by our station. Most of the time, these guys would throw on FD dress shirt or at leasta duty shirt when the stopped by.

Now I had a member of my dept ask me one day:"Why does he have his dress shirt, he's 3 states out of his district!"

My member meant it wasn't practical for that guy to have a shirt - he would not need 3 states from his own FD.

 

So why did he have it?

 

BECAUSE HE WAS A FIRE FIGHTER AND DAMN PROUD OF IT!

 

Another example: When my niece was 4 or 5, she was enrolled in a dance class. My sister in law was trying to get my niece to show my wife and me how to do a tumble. My niece howled and cried that she could not do it unless she had her dance outfit on.

First, you will never win an argument witha 3 year old, PERIOD!

Second, she was proud of that outfit and just had to wear it.

 

In both case, pride over came what people thought at the immediate moment.

So basically, my long and drug out point was : If you get them proud again, they will proudly wer the uniform. But the uniform will not make them proud not lose that pride.

 

At least as long as the Cub/Boy Scout uniform is not made of pink spandex. Then it's a different story!

[mikemayer67]

Not to beat a dead horse, but I do want to weigh in on the side of those defending the notion that scouting pride is not dead.

 

The issues/concerns raised in this thread are neither new nor universal. When I was going through the program in the mid-1980s, my troop had a lot of pride (some individual scouts more/less than others). But we camped alongside many troops that clearly lacked pride. Today when I interact with other adult leaders at round tables, it is clear that some troops exude pride and others cannot seem to find it.

 

I am fortunate that I found a good troop as a boy (I switched troops because the first was lacking it.) I am fortunate that my son found a good troop. I pray that as SM, I have the ability to keep that sense of pride going and possibly even bump it up a notch.

 

mike