COPE training

[JerseyScout]

How and where do you get COPE trained? No one in my district or council seems to have any idea, they are sending me in circles.

 

I've got two former climbing instructors in my troop alumni that would love to take the kids climbing on a trip, but we got chewed out once already for letting the kids climb on a rope that was THREE FEET above the ground because no one was cope certified.

 

Its a good thing no one was around to chew me out as a Scout for lack of certiciation, we have 15 foot high gateways, 8 foot high rope bridges, and used to go rock climbing without any gear (very, very stupid, but we all survived!).

[John-in-KC]

Here's some info. You might try calling this WV Council to talk to their people about training...

 

http://www.literati.com/cope/

[Eagle92]

If memory serves, there is now a separate Climb on Safety Instructor certification, andn COPE has little to no involvment with the climbing side of things, at least that is what I've been told.

 

On another note, unless things changed in G2SS, you can go shoulder high without a harness and ropes, as long as you have spotters.

[JerseyScout]

Alright, so my new question to throw at district will be how do I get Climb on Safety Instructor training. I was told by them that we needed climbing certification to do anything with a rope.

[JerseyScout]

Alright, from this website, it looks like there is no BSA certification for this, they merely list places where you can find instructors. As my alumni were both climbing instructors at a rock climbing gym (a local place, so obviously not one of the places listed on that site), it would seem to me that they would be qualified for what we want to do as long as they took the online Climb on Safely training from the BSA.

 

 

[OldGreyEagle]

Climb On Safely is not a climbing course anymore than safe swim defense teaches you how to swim. To do a climbing activity you need to have someone with Climb On Safely Certification and also you need some one certifed in Climbing, from the Climb on SAfely outline this is what a qualified individual is;

 

A qualified instructor for rock climbing/rappelling must supervise all BSA climbing/rappelling activities. A currently trained BSA climbing director or climbing instructor is highly recommended. Contact your local Scout service center to locate a qualified individual. Other climbing instructors must be at least 21 years of age and must have completed a minimum of 10 hours of climbing/rappelling instruction from a nationally or regionally recognized organization, climbing school, or college-level climbing/rappelling course.

 

You either need two people who qualify for each one of these, Climb on SAfely trained for one and Climbing instructor for the other OR a single person may hold both certificates

 

Climb on Safely is not skills training, its about how to organize and run a climbing event much as Safe Swin Defense is about how to run a swimming event

 

Edited Part,

 

Looks like jersey posted as I was writing. Climb On Safely is offered at various places, I know the Minsi Trails Council in the Lehigh Valley PA will have it at our University of Scouting in the Spring(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

[emb021]

AFAIK, COPE Directors are trained at National Camp School.

 

I can't believe your council doesn't know this or have any COPE Directors. Your council does have a COPE course, right?

 

 

[JerseyScout]

As far as I know, we do not have a COPE course (at least the local camp does not, the council has merged since I attended, so there may be one at the other camp). The local YMCA camp does have a COPE course, as well as a high ropes (as in, 40 feet up in the trees) course.

 

This all came up because, two years ago, we ran the classic "Gully Crossing" event at our district Klondike, stretching a rope across two trees and tying off to a hitch on a pick up truck to make it easy to loosen or tighten the slack. The kids had to safely transport their patrol across this rope which spanned a "raging river" (aka, two lines in the dirt), with bonus points given for getting the sled across too.

 

We were fine for most of the day, and were easily one of the favorite events present when a parent who was following his kid's sled (a no no) saw our event and rushed off to report us for an unsafe event. We got shut down by district (who had approved the event ahead of time) within ten minutes for "not having a properly trained COPE or Climbing instructor" running the event. The rope was over the limit at each end where it was tied off, but sagged down to 2 1/2 to 3 feet from the ground where the Scouts were climbing. We also had spotters and, like I said, had the rope tied off to a truck to make sure that the tension stayed right.

 

We've been going in circles on "How do we get people trained?" ever since, as we'd like to do rope events and rock climbing while staying street legal. The Klondike is in January, it would be nice to throw an event at them that actually makes them think about what Scouting skills to use to accomplish the task.

[Crew21_Adv]

Jersey,

 

Greetings!

 

Real briefly.. I concur with emb021 for the source NCS, and all our fellow Scouters for the safety.

 

There are non BSA courses that you can obtain certifications if you want to work at a climbing park or team building park. Sometimes even colleges have courses in COPES/ROPES leading to the physical training and physical education degrees. These courses may be even more extensive than the BSA COPES class.

 

Like emb021 said, the BSA normally certifies their COPES Directors during a 40 hour safety course during National Camping School. The two main goals seem to be safety and team building.

 

Also, it seems the BSA offers HIGH COPES and LOW COPES. The difference (rule of thumb) I've usually be told, HIGH COPES is above 6 feet and requires safety gear. LOW COPES can be done on the ground of 6 inches above the ground (up to 6 feet) and needs to observe safety, but does not require safety equipment. Of course, the literature would provide the acurate definition of LOW COPES and HIGH COPES.

 

The main COPES literature is The Project COPE manual, No. 34371C. Rapelling and climbing would more be found in Topping Out manual.

 

Enjoy! and Hopefully you run a safe and exciting Klondike Derby!

 

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

[le Voyageur]

Sounds like you need either the Climbing Director, or Climbing Instructor cert more than COPE. If you can find a CD either in your Council, or an adjacent one then opt for the Climbing Instructor since you'll not need to attend a NCS course for it. Additionally, with two having been former CI's, a CD can refresh them fairly quickly.

However, in the meantime, I would suggest doing ground level training such as belaying, climbing knots, anchor systems, protection, hauling systems, etc...

[le Voyageur]

we ran the classic "Gully Crossing" event at our district Klondike, stretching a rope across two trees and tying off to a hitch on a pick up truck to make it easy to loosen or tighten the slack. Jersey Scout

 

Wow!!! Tying off to a pick up truck to adjust slack. Sorry, but that is so wrong, and teaches nothing. The better solution would of been a z drag, or 3 to 1 using prusiks, or even a garda knot z'd and locked down with a mariner hitch.