The Bright Movement.....

[frank10]

Pack,

I see your point. My fear is that if we were to remove the DRP it wouldn't be long before scouts was just one more place my son couldn't bow his head and offer a prayer before a meal. I'm not thrilled at keeping anyone out, but I don't want to be tossed out of one more place.

[shortridge]

Thanks for the full text of the DRP. I greatly appreciate it.

 

wingnut - I'm curious ... where has anyone been kicked out of for praying over their meal? At a public school? A restaurant?

[Trevorum]

BadenP asks, "Is the true God the Christian one, the Jewish or Muslim one?"

 

In fact, adherents of these three religions worship the same deity, just with different names.

[BadenP]

Trev

The Muslim God is very different from the God of the Christians or the Jews, just read the Koran, you can find some similiarities in the texts but thats where it ends . What about all the other faiths in the world, are they invalid because their vision of God is so different from yours? You cannot simplify this so easily, religious intolerance has been the main cause of war and conflict from the beginning of time to the present. From the start of the BSA Catholics and Jews were not really welcomed, and priests and rabbis spoke against any of their members from joining. In the late 1960's my priest told me it was wrong for me to be a boy scout since "they were mostly Protestant heretics that would drive me away from the only true Church." I know of priests today who still believe this to be true.

 

My point is before we pass judgement on how any group chooses to view GOD we need to remove our own faith based and learned religious prejudices. The DRP will always be a major stumbling block preventing the BSA from realizing its true full potential.

[packsaddle]

BadenP, I agree with regard to the differences between those three religions. I add that I have read articles in which Hebrew scholars claim their god is also different from the Christian god. I also add that I find these things very confusing.

 

However, I believe that Trevorum is much more tolerant than might be construed from your message. He is aware of the intolerance and potentials for violence that are associated with religious differences.

That said, I especially agree with your assessment of the DRP. Quite right.

Edited for clarity(This message has been edited by packsaddle)

[Trevorum]

BP, I understand why you would think that. Many adherents of each of those three religions (we should alo include Baha'i as a more recent fourth) want to distinguish their view of God as distinct from the one worshipped by the others. However, historical continuity as well as overwhelming theological scholarship confirms that each of these three Abrahamic faiths worship the same deity, albeit with different rituals and by different names (Elohim, Yahweh, Jehovah, Allah). The existence of sacred texts unique to the individual religions can not obscure the more ancient sacred texts (the "book") that are common to all of them. Similarly, all three religions hold identical fundamental beliefs (omnipotent/omniscient absolute ruler of the universe, eternal life for humans, a paradise vs. torment afterlife dichotomy, etc.). The historical divergences of their subsidiary beliefs (who is a prophet, method to achieve salvation, the categorization of sins, etc.) can not negate the inescapable fact that all three (oops, four) religions worship the same Ruler of the Universe.

 

Of course if you disagree with me that's OK too.

 

[packsaddle]

This is a difference of opinion that cannot be resolved...unless all of the gods who actually exist make themselves present at the same time in a lineup or something so we can count them and see if there is more than one or not.

 

I caution that just because some text is more ancient than another one, that only makes it older, not necessarily correct about anything. If the question is one of a historical timeline that is one thing. But if the question is whether or not there are three gods (or more) or just one (or none), that question will remain unresolved until we can see the lineup.

 

But seeing as how we are all left behind already, I suspect the question will remain.

[BadenP]

Trev

 

By the BOOK I assume you are talking about the Bible, other than mentioning some names places and events the Bible shares little with the Koran or the Jewish Kabbalah,which are much older than the Bible, even the Jewish version of the Old Testament called the Tanakh is very different from the others in their interpretations of these events mentioned in each of them. Their interpretations of who the Supreme God is, heaven and hell is not the same. So I guess Trev without getting into a drawn out theological discussion I think your analysis is much too simplistic and inaccurate in its conclusions.

[Trevorum]

In any event, I suspect that Zeus is feeling terribly excluded these days.

[acco40]

Because the BSA application contains the DRP I guess that most Scouts and Scouters are therefore "dims?"

[nolesrule]

Kabbalah isn't a written text, it's the philosophy of mysticism, Jewish-style. There are some texts at its foundation, including primarily the Zohar, which may or may not date back to the 2nd century.

[BadenP]

nolesrule, all religious belief is some form of mysticism that began long before there were writing or books. Humans have always tried to find explainations for those things beyond our capability to truly and completely understand, and all religions tries to explain these phenomena, unfortunately in a rather simplistic and incomplete way, so that our brains can try to comprehend them. So we have to very careful when we condemn any group because no religion or person has all the answers, not even the Brights.