Worship service songs

[JFL49]

I don't claim to be an expert in this subject, but I have conducted plenty of Scout's Own and Interfaith Services (too many to count) and have taught the subject to Scouters. Some definitions might be helpful in this discussion.

 

From the BSA syllabus on "Conducting an Interfaith Service:"

 

An interfaith service means a service conducted for all faiths. Much attention must be paid to recognize the universality of beliefs in God and reverence.

 

A "nondenominational" service is, by definition, typically just for Protestants. An "ecumenical" service is one suitable for the whole Christian church. A "nonsectarian" service is one that is not affiliated with any specific religion. The Charter and Bylaws of the Boy Scouts of America recognize the religious element in the training of the BSAs members, but the BSA is absolutely nonsectarian in its attitude toward that religious training.

 

BP may have said it best:

"Let us, therefore, in training our Scouts, keep the higher aims in the forefront, not let ourselves get too absorbed in the steps. Don't let the technical outweigh the moral. Field efficiency, back woodsmanship, camping, hiking, Good Turns, jamboree comradeship are all means, not the end. The end is CHARACTER with a purpose.

 

The Battle Hymn of the Republic is certainly a moving piece of music. Yet, the fifth verse would best be skipped in an interfaith service, based on the reference to Christ.

 

Blowin' In the Wind and If I Had a Hammer (just to name two examples) are fully appropriate to an interfaith service. And more than a handful of churches have sung those songs on a Sunday morning.

 

[John-in-KC]

No, Sir, they are not. Excepting Battle Hymn, which is accetped in Christendom as a National hymn of invocation, they are secular. For the Christian to sing them in worship is anathema. If you want verses from Holy Scripture on what God proclaims in Word, they can be given

 

I really, really like what Pastor Gordon Gross, one of the Philmont staff chaplains, taught me in 2003: As long as the community claims itself all to be Christian, have worship. If the community leaves the boundaries of one faith family, move to a lesson on the absolute morality on the Scout Law or Oath, and then offer folks private time to privately pray in their tradition.

 

Ken, (Narraticong), you around to help on this?

 

BTW, we've been here before on the matter of interfaith and Scout's Own. Fred Goodwin, again, thank you for the research you do for us as a collective. I don't have to agree, but nearly always not when you weigh in (as indeed with an awful lot of regulars here...)

 

http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=193506&p=1(This message has been edited by John-in-Kc)(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

[shortridge]

I think I may have inadvertently sparked some of the discussion by my use of the word "worship." BSA's materials on the subject only refer to such a gathering as an "interfaith service," designed to reflect on the Scout Law and its universal lessons and meaning. Worship is something else entirely.

 

My apologies if I caused any confusion.

[Trevorum]

John, I'm curious - when the opportunity arises, do you attend interfaith services (like a Scout's Own), or is that not acceptable? How about if it's not referred to as a "worship" service? I've known folks who see all such interfaith gatherings as as inherently repugnant.

[John-in-KC]

Trev,

 

I follow what Pastor Gordon Gross, Philmont Chaplain, taught me seven years ago: If it's interfaith, and it's a discussion sans worship, I attend. If it's interfaith worship, no.

 

That said, I counsel God and Church for the God and Country (now PRAY) program. I take Scouts, every year, to the local conservative synagogue. I want them to see how other faith communities worship. I want them to experience what "outside of Christendom, outside of their comfort zone" feels like.

 

I believe there is tremendous value in know how other peoples faiths work themselves out. We all have to live on this rock together. I just ask they don't ask to to explicitly worship their God in a Scouting context, as I do not get to ask them to worship my God in a Scouting context.

 

Does that make sense?

[John-in-KC]

I need to edit my own statement:

 

I just ask they don't ask to to explicitly worship their God in a Scouting context, as I do not get to ask them to worship my God in a Scouting context.

 

Should read...

I just ask they don't ask me to explicitly worship their God in a Scouting context, as I do not get to ask them to worship my God in a Scouting context.

 

We're all allowed to worship our God. That's part of the DRP and the Charter Agreement. We're not allowed to evangelize/prosletyze, and we do not have to follow other peoples worship methods, especially outside our major faith community. Within Christendom, this can extend to the Roman Catholic who is obligated to attend Mass faithfully.

[Trevorum]

OK, I understand. The message I see is that we should be cautious about referring to a Scout's Own service or other interfaith gatherig as a "worship" service. If it is a gathering to mutually reflect on the meaning of the 12th point from several perspectives, that is one thing, but actual communion with the numinous is to be avoided in an interfaith context. Thanks for the viewpoint.

[ChaiAdventure]

John

 

You have an interesting perspective that I had not considered. As a Jew, and the perennial minority when it comes to religious representation, I had looked at Scout's Own as an opportunity for all Scouts to come together to worship. I can absolutely see your point that interfaith "worship" is a bridge too far. Interfaith discussion of the twelfth point of the Scout Law is one thing...worship is another.

 

I think that sometimes we get caught up in making it good for all, sometimes to the point where it is good for none.

[Narraticong]

I think ChaiAdventure has put it quite well. As a Christian, and particularly as a Lutheran, I have some very deeply held beliefs in regard to my Faith in God. I would assume those who practice other religions or denominations do also. My God has made it very clear to me that he is a jealous God, and demands that I worship only Him. For me to participate in a worship service which recognizes or worships other gods is just unacceptable.

 

In agreement with my friend John, I am very much in favor of conversation. It is a good thing to understand what others believe. As a member of our council Religious Relations Committee, I enjoy our annual Walk With God hike. During Relations Week at Philmont Training Center in 2008 I had many interesting conversations at mealtimes with Scouters of many beliefs.

 

But I just can not in good faith (maybe this is where that saying comes from...) worship with those of diffrent beliefs. As an American, and as a Scout, I respect your right to believe whatever you will. But we just are not worshipping the same god, so I choose not to participate in any joint services.

 

Ken