Camporee attendance

[gwd-scouter]

For the past several years, our fall camporee has been based on scout skills competitions. I've seen the numbers of troops drop off year after year. This year, only four troops attended. Our two patrols were quite proud of themselves that they won several ribbons, even a couple of first place ribbons, in the competitions - especially since that meant they beat the "mega" troop that always wins everything every year. Like another poster mentioned, that particular troop practices all the activity rotations for about a month ahead of time so their patrols are very well prepared for the camporee.

 

This year, the reason most troops gave for not attending was that another Council close to us was holding a very large event and had invited Troops from our Council to attend as well. That event was the weekend before our District Camporee and the troops just didn't want to do something two weekends in a row.

 

I have heard from guys in other troops, and a few in ours, that they had become tired of trying to compete against the mega troop. But, after winning a few times this year, I think our guys have had a change of heart.

 

Still, the scheduling of our District Fall Camporee is always difficult. It is around the same time as our Council OA Fall Fellowship, football takes a lot of the older guys away, marching band takes more with football games every Friday and band competitions on Saturdays. I have often thought that perhaps the competition type camporee could be held in the spring and then a more novel idea used for the fall.

[Midnightflyer]

I've seen a lot has been written about competition and fear of failure. We have been using a system of scoring that gives each Patrol an attainable goal. The scoring system we use has three levels, Gold, Silver, and Bronze. to qualify for the Gold we take the highest score down to 85% of that total. Silver is equal to 85% down to 75%. And Bronze equals 75% down to 50%. Below 50% equals a participant plaque. We also have opportunities for Bonus Points. Last weekend we had 9 Patrols, we gave out 8 Gold Awards and 1 Silver Award. Some of the more competitive Troops are starting to get use to this system. I like to think this system gives each patrol a reachable goal. I think we got this system some where off the internet. The stations we run are a mix of scouting skills, team building skills, leadership skills, problem solving, fun stations.

 

Mention was made about older scouts being rusty at scout skills. Skills like first aid shouldn't we be practicing on a regular basis? I take CPR training every year, even though I remember it from when I took First aid Merit Badge in 1969, so I try to stay sharp and BE PREPARED. Remember the life you save might be mine. Sorry to get off on a tangent.

 

 

Thanks for all the replies, you all have given me a lot to think about. Will make for some good conversation during our next camporee meeting.

 

Yours in Scouting,

Dave S.

[Twocubdad]

Good for you. I suggested our camporee go to a similar scoring system and was all but run out of the room. Commie, everybody-gets-a-trophy woose, don't you know.

 

Of course the whole Scouting advancement program is based on everyone who meets preset goals "wins." I mean, at the end of the year we don't add up the points and award an Eagle to the first place guy; Life and Star to the second- and third-place Scouts.

[Mike F]

We have gone to single camporee in the Spring. This has its own challenges because it's 1-2 months after mass Webelos crossover, but we make it work.

 

We are discussing moving toward Gold/Silver/Bronze type system for recognizing patrols, but also recognizing the top 3 places in every event and the top overall troop.

Green patrols are scored and ranked differently than older patrols. When running the events, if it's obvious a patrol is clueless, we turn it into more of a teaching opportunity. Their score will reflect this, but at least they can have some fun and get something out of it.

 

We tried having 3 sets of scoring criteria (Green/Regular/Venture patrols), but had few Venture patrols competing and their skills we almost all below the other "regular" patrols, so it didn't make much sense to add to overhead.

[ntrog8r]

Having been in several districts and Councils over the years, I have seen one reason Troops (Scouts) don't participate in Camporees - adults.

 

>Adult Camporee staff plan Camporees based on things THEY think are fun - like Scout Skills competition, Gilwell Park, 1910 Scouting, etc (which all are exactly the same).

>Adults fear looking like failures. SMs don't want to be judged by the rest of the adult Scouters when their Scouts look inept at the scout skills so they (a) don't tell the Scouts about the upcoming Camporee, (b) tell them it won't be fun or fit in the calender, © tell the parents/committee how poorly planned and executed the events are, or (d) intentioanlly plan conflicting events at the same time.

>Adults at Council don't deconflict the calendars. We just had a Camporee, CPR and First Responder training, and popcorn sales all on the same weekend in our Council. When I asked about it the response was, "Really? How did that happen?"

>Adults run the stations (Where is the OA?!?!). I know no one here but me has ever seen this, right? Its always a Scout at the station. A cheerful and excited Scout. A Scout who really knows and is excited about his station. Definitely NOT a Scout who was TOLD he would be working the station who just learned his skill, at best, days before the event. Not a Scout who would rather leave because the adults keep coming over and pestering him about details or correcting what he's saying or showing "a little better" way. Not a Scout who's tired of being challenged by unit adult leaders when he makes a correction on the skill or gives an assessment on the performance of the team at the station, right?

 

If you want Scouts to come, plan events for Scouts. Get their input on what would be fun. Invite "cool" participants - firemen, K9 units, military, etc. Have little giveaways, prizes, etc. Include technology! Have a GPS course along with the map and compass. Recognize and reward for best campsite, best Patrol spirit, best uniformed, youngest Scout in attendance, best dessert, most creative use of rope in the campsite, best Patrol flag, etc to get away from the "mega" troop and share the wealth and promote Scout ideals you're looking for. Get Scout staff for the event - OA, senior Scouts, Venturing crews, etc and get them planning and training for the stations NOW. Have at least four Scouts identified for each event. At least one will not attend for a variety of reasons and whoever is at the station will want to go to the bathroom, eat, take a break, hang out with friends, go llok around - you know, have fun.

 

The "camporee award" (gold, silver, bronze) I've seen go by many names. This SHOULD be based on a points and recognize all who reach the goals. The top Patrol awards SHOULD recognize individual Patrol achievment over other Patrols. I'm not a big fan of troop level recognition at these sort of things. However, we were in a district that was and part of the reward for the "top troop" was they staffed the competition events at next year's Camporee. This gave them bragging rights, recognized their achievements with positional authority, and TOOK THEM OUT OF THE COMPETITION for the next Camporee. Worked really well there.

 

Awards to hang on the Ptrol flags can be cheap, fun, and inventive. These incentive awards can become the most popular awards of the camp. Just be sure to put the name of the Camporee, the reason for the award, and the year on the award so in 15 years when a SM finds these in the Scout Hut there will be some idea why its there.

 

We have been blessed with some great Camporees over the years as well - they all addressed just one thing - make it for the boys. Boy's Life often has articles on Camporees that are the envy of all. Event or theme focused, well organized (in advance), and what the Scouts find interesting. Maybe that's the secret to success?

[Eamonn]

For many years when the time came to make the District calender for the next year, Camporees were just stuck in. Same weekend of the same month.

Someone came up with what was supposed to be a theme.

From the theme a patch was made.

Most of the time, in fact nearly all the time the Camporee would take place at the Council primitive campsite.

Friday night the Troops would arrive.

Someone would inform everyone that there was going to be a Leaders Meeting later that night.

The program for the weekend was made at this meeting.

Very much the same old same old.

As a rule whatever was planned did somehow, someway manage to hold the interest of the Scouts until lunchtime.

They would break for lunch and most wouldn't bother returning.

I really didn't blame them.

 

We do have a few Troops that need these events as without them the outdoor method would go out the window. Needless to say these Troops are as a rule not very big and lack any real outdoor skills.

We have a couple of Troops who have adults who feel that they have to attend to support the District.

A couple who have never attended as to do so might be seen as supporting the District.

Then there are the Troops who if they are free that weekend will try and attend.

 

Fall is a very busy time.

On Friday night there is of course football and the band is at football.

More and more it seems that bands have things going on most Saturdays. The younger Scouts have soccer on Saturday mornings.

Then the weather can be iffy.

Last weekend we had a very hard frost.

I was nice and warm at home, but when I took the dogs out at about 0700 it was darn cold.

Parents who are not used to allowing their kids to camp in the cold do tend to have second thoughts about allowing their son to camp when the weather-man has bad news.

 

Attendance did go up when we invited SPL's to the R/T and had them help plan the event. Another benefit of this was that the event was planned.

We tried including lunch in the price to help not "Lose" so many of the Scouts at lunch time.

As District Chair I kinda made it very clear if I seen another "Burn the String" Or make a stretcher and race event that heads would roll.

We for a while were doing well, but I see we are back to the same old same old.

One benefit that often goes unnoticed is that Camporees do bring the adults in a District together. Sure there is a lot of story telling (Seems that the stories about me get a little more embellished every year!) But a lot of good stuff can come from bringing a herd of Scouter's together.

Or is a gaggle of Scouter's? (I think it's a parliament of commissioners!)

Eamonn.

 

[jeff-o]

Sorry to hear about so many disappointments this year. I'm going to throw a wet blanket on that party, if you don't mind.

 

Our district had camporee about the same weekend. We had 20 troops there and over 500 people total. And my troop, with just three first-year scouts (two second class and one tenderfoot) actually got first place in the orienteering course, beating out 25 other patrols (yeah, I'm quite proud of them, I did not assist one bit).

 

One of the keys, I think, to the success? It was well-promoted and completely, 100% planned and run by scouts. Every station had an adult there for safety, but the events were created, designed, and run completely by scouts, starting in February. I guess if it were the same every year, it might get boring. But the way our troop approached it during the annual planning session was, "Okay, this month is camporee, so that's our camping event that month, let's move on to November."

[Mike F]

jeff-o,

 

Congrats! Sounds like things are working great!! Key at the unit level is doing exactly what you did by setting the expectation you were going to camporee.

 

But overall success of camporee makes it sound like more good things are happening -- Tell us more!!!

Events, overall theme, favorite part, etc.

 

[jeff-o]

Not having been on the planning committee, I'm not 100% sure how it was done. I'm pretty sure, from what I've heard, that the general theme was "Scouting Around the World." Then the scouts, divided up into groups, determined countries from around the world and games or competitions that could be applied to those countries. Some were basic, like Switzerland and First Aid, while others were more exotic, like Korea and some stick hitting game.

 

We had the use of a grass runway, so the entire event was set up there. One end was the Northern Hemisphere, and the other was the Southern Hemisphere. Patrols were divided up at the start and were given passports telling them where to start the day. After a certain period of time, they moved to the next event, and after lunch they headed to the other hemisphere. There were 10 countries and 10 events spread throughout the day, including a day-long scavenger hunt. Oh, and each station has bonus questions that included questions about that country, the capital of that country, etc. That had some scouts studying for days ahead of time!

 

Again, I think one of the best parts is that the entire thing was planned and run by scouts. At the Klondike Derby last February, they were recruiting Scouts to be staff for the fall event. That kept them going all summer.

[shortridge]

I recall three types of camporee themes from my youth - (1) Klondike Derby, (2) Scout skills competitions and (3) Indian Lore.

 

For all practical intents and purposes, the Klondike Derby was a Scout skills competition, just in the cold hauling around a sled. (It almost never snowed, so we didn't even have igloos! ) And with a couple of exceptions - panning for gold was one - it was all the same old stuff, over and over again. Knot-tying, wood-chopping, stretcher races, random teambuilding stuff, string-burning.

 

A few random suggestions for better camporee planning...

 

1. Pick a new site. A district camporee doesn't have to be in the district! Try a location where few units have gone recently. The novelty will help keep their interest up. Holding it at the council camp every year may be cost-effective and give SMs a place to make their coffee, but it doesn't do much for the Scouts who already know the camp inside and out.

 

2. Pick a theme. Develop everything around this theme, from the opening ceremonies to the campfire. Wilderness survival, Indian lore, boating, first aid, pioneering - make it something very specific, and stick to it.

 

3. If you go the competition route, throw out the old playbook. Ban the skills contests that everyone's done 10 times before (especially rope-burning!) and pick new ones, ideally based around your theme.

 

Pioneering contests could include basic knot-tying, basic lashings, splicing, advanced knots, rope tricks, block-and-tackle hauling, making a windlass ... all the way up to building a tower or monkey bridge.

 

Wilderness survival events might include Kim's game to make a survival kit, scenarios based on different situations, first aid hurry cases, edible plant identification, flint knapping, water purification or collection and signaling.

 

4. Once the broad themes are selected, put it in the hands of the Scouts, at least a year in advance. Have each troop send someone to a planning committee - maybe the SPL, ASPL, JASM, OA rep - someone senior who can pull away from his troop and help run things at the event.

 

5. Continue the program on Sunday morning. As you might guess from my bolding, this is one of my pet peeves. I recently staffed a Cub family weekend where quite a few of the participants packed up and left right after breakfast, because the only program on the agenda was a chapel service.

 

Unless your district is geographically huge or units need to get back to attend religious services on Sunday morning, there's really no reason not to continue the program through 11 a.m., with units packing up and leaving by noon. An awards ceremony and interfaith worship service alone won't get them to hang around. Have something fun, a big climactic experience, to hook the Scouts and keep them a little longer. Otherwise, what's the point of staying overnight? Just to say you slept in a tent? Pshaw! < note sarcasm >

[Stosh]

Our camporees tend to be so competition/trophy oriented that some troops will go to any and all lengths to "take home the prize". This becomes a turn-off for the other troops.

 

If one is trying to promote patrol-method, why not register and assign camping as patrols instead of troops. Too often ad hoc patrols are formed by troops the morning of the competition, wishing to win it all and their older boys get the glory and their younger boys are left out to dry. Troop-method units will need to at least consider a balance of patrols so everything remains an even playing field especially in the campsites where real patrol dynamics come into play.

 

Instead of such a focus on competition, why not adopt a University of Scouting approach to the camporee, offering instruction on a variety of different levels where patrols can go to develop their team-work skills and coordinate a patrol program rather than compete troop to troop.

 

Like schools with different divisional levels depending on size and make up of schools, why not rank patrols into various divisions. Take the age of each patrol member and come up with an average. Have 7 divisions, one for every year of scouting. If you have a NSP and the average age is 11.1 they compete in Division 1, if the second year boys average 12.3, they are in division 2. If it's a mixed patrol, their age average dictates their division and a troop can't put a ringer patrol in to wipe out all competition. This means 8 17 year-olds don't compete with 8 11 year-olds. And it doesn't mean a mixed patrol of 17 year-olds and 11 year olds will be at any advantage or disadvantage. 4 17 year olds and 4 11 year olds averages out to 14, or Division 4.

 

By leveling the playing field, each troop registers their patrols individually, mixed patrols will find this a good way to engage boys of all ages in the day-to-day operation of the camp and not be penalized in competions. NSP's will need more adult supervision, but the older scout patrols will not need much, if any.

 

"Classes" for the camporee would be designed on the division basis offering 101 classes for the NSP and 701 for the advanced patrols. These all could be the same class taught by the same person - i.e. Fire Building, where Fire Building 101 would be how to collect tinder, kindling and do fire lays, teepee, hunters, etc. and Fire Building 701 would be how to make charcloth and start fire with flint and steel. This would not be for individuals to sign up for, but patrols, so that discussion and teamwork would go into the selection of classes process. One could also have a graded "test" at the end of the class which would accumulate into a GPA for competition purposes. That way if the younger boys come in taking the process seriously they might get a better "grade" than an older boy patrol that comes in an screws around.

 

Just some ideas of what I would think a productive camporee be and what might encourage better participation. Maybe some of the new young troops will have a chance against the 75 year old troop in the next town and be more inclined to bring their patrols of 1 - 2 year boys.

 

Stosh

[Mafaking]

 

 

Sorry I am not in lock step that this is a patrol issue at the root or at all.

 

This is a a time - value issue. A simple camporee at the council scout reservation just doesn't surpass the value of other opportunities available to the scout for that weekend. It's mom not the patrol leader dismissing the camporee as low value.

 

Simple knot tying and skill games don't match up against band, football, soccer and friends birthdays. "These skills were taught at summer camp." thinks mom. "Why spend money and time to re-learn these skills. He has already been signed off."

 

Also likely it is a SM whose emphasis is not on scoutcraft skills but on pure advancement that is another contributing factor. Our troop is going to the council camporee. There was no PLC vote for this one.

 

 

 

 

 

(This message has been edited by Mafaking)

[Troop185]

Some people just do not like camporee!

 

The last one I camp at (I often go out for part of the day and visit when our troop is there) was over 20 years ago. They gave us a small rope off area in a field, to set up in. There were other troops all around us. There were all kinds of rules, such as quiet time from 11:00 p.m. - 7:00 a.m. which no one seem to paid attention too. Our troop turned in at 10:00 and they were quiet. However, no one could sleep with hundreds of other scouts running around.

 

The topper for me was the out-houses. They had them from a rental company all line up. The scouts went in a out of them all day, peeing all over the seats. Of course is got below freezing at night, and guess who had to go sit on one in the morning.

 

I guess I am just too old. I do not like crowds. I love wilderness camping with a small group.

[Buffalo Skipper]

Our district camporees have taken a different turn the past few years. Our camporees are organized and run by the SPLs. The SPLs meet monthly at roundtable (they have their own roundtable). The fall camporee is a Renaissance theme. We are having chariot races, jousting, a pheasant (chicken for dinner or eggs for breakfast) cooking competition (dutch oven), and of course a catapult fling. There are only about 10 events, so it will be pretty low key.

 

Last fall, we had a council encampment (1st in over a decade) and it was run by the OA. Well done and a big hit!

 

This spring is the Centennial encampment, which appears to be adult run. It will be at a neighboring city's fairgrounds which will be very visible, which appears to be the point. Looks to me like it will be very adult organized. I need to ask more about how youth run it will be.

[Oak Tree]

Our troop doesn't attend many camporees. The PLC votes to leave it off the annual plan, and the adults are just as happy not to go, too. We've done a few in the past - but they tend to be crowded, not entirely well-organized, and a bit more restrictive than a normal campout. I think everyone in our troop just looks at it and thinks "We have more fun on our other campouts. Why go to the camporee?"