NYLT = co-ed

[Crew21_Adv]

Fellow Scouters,

 

Greetings!

 

Just to throw out a few thoughts.

 

I'm pretty sure that Venturing training states that Crews can be all male, all female, or coed. Also, A Venturer does not have to previous been enrolled in a Boy Scout troop (or GSUSA troop).

 

Is it possible that the new NYLT literature will refer to all male Venturing Crews?

 

Also, I know training changes sometimes slowly migrate down from area training conferences. Usually these changes are factual, but take a year or more to make it into literature.

 

But I've also experienced friends coming back from conference, stating a discussion topic (or forward thinking idea) as absolute undeniable BSA gospel and the new implementing way of teaching, with no literature to back it up. On rare occasions, I have seen a few councils teach different methods than from the syllabus, anticipating a change to be forthcoming (maybe great ideas, but which never are published).

 

I think we all know that training gets updated, the same way all the program handbooks are reviewed and updated every few years.

 

Is it possible that the National Training Committee is just considering drastic changes? and the natl committee is still finding better leadership methods, outdoor skills, pilot programs or safety guidelines? Meanwhile, conference attendees are trying to "put the cart in front of the horse", and may act prematurely without a clear vision of BSA training.

 

Im not from Missouri aka the show me state so Id prefer to tread cautiously, but I will gladly implement changes once I see them published.

 

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

 

[John-in-KC]

SR540Beaver is on his way to a CD's conference in Texas. It'll be interesting to hear what he has to report back...

[Eagle92]

"I assume Venturing YP standards (4 sleeping areas, females mandatory on staff if there are females enrolled as students, ad infinitum) will apply to this new course. "

 

I think it would need to be 5 or six sleeping areas: Option 1: 11-17 males; 18-20 Males; 14-21 females; 21+ males; 21+ females; OR option B) this one to be used if any females are duel enrolled in troops as ASMs: 11-17 males; 14-17 females; 18-20 males; 18-20 females; 21+ males; 21+ females

 

 

As for the combined outdoor skills training,I have mixed emotions on it. One one side I see how you need to gradually introduce leaders to the outdoors. Got that from this past weekend and CS family camp.

 

But on the flip side you got leaders like me who been through IOLS, ok it was the old SMF but I did teach IOLS one time, I was bored stiff with BALOO and didn't learn a heck anything new except a new knot. Also there is the case of a friend of mine who is an Eagle, is very active in th outdoors, and is a MBC for Camping, Backpacking etc. He went to BALOO, but has never completed IOLS b/c he has never found the time between workgin with his troop, starting up his crew, and serving on the district committee.

 

Also you do have leaders who go through BALOO move on to scouts and just pick up those T-2-1 skills naturally and don't understand the need additional outdoor training sicne they already got it.

[Buffalo Skipper]

I see two main options here. First, if you have a mixed patrol (male and female) at an NYLT course (males and females camping in separate areas) then you loose the cohesiveness of the patrol. But you also must put a male and female adults with these patrols. At NYLT, you only have a handful of adults, so now staff can't work together, because they must be babysitting the boys and girls.

 

The second option is to have segregated patrols (all girls together, all boys together) but again you will need to keep these patrols rigidly separated with adults.

 

Like I said in my original response: I see NO benefit which comes from this. NONE. NADA. NICHTS. I just don't see the point here.

[BadenP]

Wow you guys are so quick to hit the panic button, lol. VLSC, as stated before is only on a unit level and many times not done at all. I think you will see a revised curriculum that will be applicable to all programs just like WoodBadge is now, originally it was a Boy Scout leader program only. I think OGE may be right that this is the first step to making Boy Scouts of America into Scouting America a totally coed program. In any case I don't think it is time to panic just yet.

[John-in-KC]

E92,

 

Here are the sleeping areas I see by YP standards for Venturing:

 

Boys, 11-18 ... if not ASMs but just Venturers, may be 11-21

Girls, 14-21

 

Adult men over 18 (STAFF)

Adult women over 18 (STAFF)

 

Co-registered 18-21, male participants

Co-registered 18-21, female participants

 

Frankly, I'm beginning to think the right thing to do is end Young Adult ASMs, and put them in Venturing until 21. Keeps the program clean.

 

Of course, the National OA committee would have conniption fits about THAT.

 

Here's a question for emb: Why is YOUTH TRAINING seen as volunteer development? Is it not PROGRAM?(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

[emb021]

Several mixed comments.

 

"I'm pretty sure that Venturing training states that Crews can be all male, all female, or coed."

 

Having recently overseen 2 sessions of VLST in 2 councils, I can say it doesn't. It should, just to help people understand the diversity of crews.

 

"Not to mention the 11-year-old Tenderfoot Scout and the 20-year-old Quartermaster Award recipient."

 

Just keep in mind that NYLT is ONLY open to 14-18 yo Venturers. I guess those 18 and up are SOL.

 

"Why is YOUTH TRAINING seen as volunteer development? Is it not PROGRAM?"

 

You're asking me? I have no idea. Its due to the National re-org. I still have no idea how National is organized now (I used to have some idea in the past...). ALL training, whether for volunteers or youth is under the same group. There is no program group (we got rid of the program divisions). There is a PPT I discovered on the National site on 'creating a training culture' that has one slide giving some info on the group this is coming from. The overall committee is the Volunteer Development. There are 4 sub-committees (called task forces). One is Leadership Development. I assume that group has further sub groups (for adult training, youth training, and maybe big courses like WB, PH, etc). AFAIK, this notice came from the LD Task Force within the VL Committee.

 

 

[Eagle92]

Emb,

Once upon a time, Venturing information DID state that you can have all male, all female, or coed. That was at the '98 NLTC conference that formally introduced venturing, and it was on the info cd-rom that was given out with summaries of all the presentations at the conference. That was a selling point to various churches to have them buy into "Youth Ministries Venture Crews" (that is how it was stated in the discussion).

[emb021]

"Once upon a time, Venturing information DID state that you can have all male, all female, or coed."

 

Eagle92, you missed the point.

 

Crew can be all male, all female or co-ed. That has never changed.

 

The question was if this information is IN THE TRAINING. Its not mentioned in VLST. I just did this training in 2 councils, and it was very clear some of its issues.

 

[hotair36]

I recently attended the CR course directors conference and later got a copy of the presentation made at the last regional meeting. YES...NYLT will be open to Venturers, if memory serves me correctly, in 2011 and is optional for 2010. Co-Ed training is part of the plan. A draft of the revised syllabus is due out this month or early December.

Remember, we are teaching LEADERSHIP and INSTRUCTIONAL (EDGE method) skills, not just outdoor scout skills, in both NYLT and WB21C, even though it is delivered using the patrol method (a/k/a small group break out or teams). This is also why WB recognition is authorized for certain NYLT adult positions. And, in case it was overlooked, Wood Badge for the 21st Century is now open to all 18 year olds no matter what program so that includes Troop or Pack level ACMs and ASMs, active Venture Crew and Sea Scout Ship members.

 

[eghiglie]

 

My son went to NYLT this past summer and didn't learn much. Everyone woke up at 5AM for a mandatory swim, then they would have to make breakfast and other things. Presentations, meals and other things kept them going till 10:30PM every night.

 

Add girls to this? The distraction may not be worth it.

 

I just asked him about this and he is thank full that he did NYLT already.

[qwazse]

I should show some of your posts to my girls. It might motivate them to take NYLT just to spite you all! (If they can stick around after I hand them their card, shake thier hand, and say "welcome to the Boy Scouts of America", they might be the right kind of women for your boys to take a leadership course with.)

If I recall, YP regs have to do with SLEEPING arrangements, and few of our patrols camp in one big tent. So, putting 4 girls in 1 or 2 tent(s) and 4 boys in 1 or to other(s) (adult leaders, male and female, nearby) is not going to break a patrol method.

That said, our program exludes 11-13 y.o. females, which may make the younger boys feel a little awkward. I guess we'll be figuring that one out as we go along.

 

P.S. - I never thought much of JLT when I took it 30 years ago, but think back favorably now. If young women were in the mix, I don't think it would have altered much.

 

[NJCubScouter]

qwazse says:

 

That said, our program exludes 11-13 y.o. females, which may make the younger boys feel a little awkward. I guess we'll be figuring that one out as we go along.

 

In our council, there is an age minimum of 13 (or have completed 7th grade) to attend NYLT, unless that has also changed with the recent revisions. I am not sure whether that is a national minimum or a council-by-council thing. So unless they are changing it, the only age where girls would be "missing" is 13, since 14 is the minimum age for Venturing. It is my observation from when my son attended NYLT a couple of years ago, and from seeing who our troop generally sends to NYLT, that there are probably relatively few 13-year-olds attending anyway, the typical age seems to be more 14-15. So making the program "coed" would not result in a big change to the age mix, at least in our council.

 

(I am noticing that my user name here has become even more anachronistic than it was previously, since my son has made Eagle and aged out of the troop (pretty much simultaneously.) I am nevertheless still a Scouter, for now at least.)

[Tokala]

I finally saw the training update. As stated, co-ed NYLT is optional for 2010 and becomes national standard in 2011. Kodiak training is the training that will be replaced by NYLT.

[emb021]

"Kodiak training is the training that will be replaced by NYLT."

 

The training update doesn't say that. Kodiak will still exist, just being updated.

 

Frankly, its not clear how all these courses will relate to one another.