Tokala Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 Council NYLT course director just returned from the Southern Region Course Director's Development Conference in Atlanta. He stated that NYLT will be offered to Venturers aged 14-18. Thus, the potential for co-ed courses. I have not seen the syllabus or received any training updates from the Region or National to verify the accuracy of his statement. I did receive a 2 page document outlining all the changes to training that will begin in 2010 and be required in 2011. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortridge Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 Why? Doesn't Venturing already have its own separate leadership training program? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokala Posted October 22, 2009 Author Share Posted October 22, 2009 My understanding was that VLSC would be removed from the training curriculum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Skipper Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 Not that I doubt you, but this doesn't really make sense to me. First of all, VLSC is not a council level training, it is suposed to be a unit level activity. NYLT is a leadership training exercise in which the participants are placed in a patrol environment. The patrol method has no place in the Venturing program. Sea Scouts, on the other hand, are divided into patrol-like groups called "Crews" (not to be confused with Venturing "Crew"), but a ship crew is generally not trained in the "Patrol Method." The unfamiliar and unrelated patrol structure of NYLT would, in my opinion, greatly reduce the value of this training to the young ladies unfamiliar with boy scout troop structure, or any young men who have no boy scout background, for that matter. More significantly, Placing 13 year old boy scouts (and older) in a Co-ed situation is extremely problematic from a "youth protection" point of view. Are they talking about mixing patrols? That sounds pretty ridiculous from the standpoint of the boy scout youth. So if that is a "no" then are they talking about segregated patrols? Again, what is the point of that? From a venturer's point of view, it seems like they are loosing the value of the training. Considering what is coming out of Dallas these days, it would not surprise me to know that this has not been thought out too much. Again, not to doubt the sincerity of what what your were told, but it doesn't seem too likely to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGreyEagle Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 Then again, this could all be preparation for when the Boy Scout program goes Co-Ed in which case girls would be at NYLT. I wonder if there will be a POR patch for Quartermistress? I gotta get one of those Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoutingagain Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 Well one way to certainly increase the interest level of teenage boys in an activity is to have teenage girls there as well. As far a youth protection issues, they would be no different than what's currenly used in the Venturing program. But from a traditional curricullum standpoint, I agree it doesn't seem to make much sense since Venturing doesn't use patrols, and I thought the main point was to train older scouts to lead troops and patrols. SA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Skipper Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 As far a youth protection issues, they would be no different than what's currenly used in the Venturing program. I both agree and disagree with this, but that is the point. Venturers enter the program in a co-ed environment, with those expectations. Boys from a troop (regardless of age) do not have that mind set. It doesn't make much sense to "retrain" them to accommodate one week (or two weekends) of activities, especially when, returning to their troop environment means leaving that co-ed environment behind. It just seems like this would create a whole new series of challenges for which there is no real gain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokala Posted October 22, 2009 Author Share Posted October 22, 2009 I well aware, and agree, with the differences between Venturing (crews), BSA (patrols) and that VLSC is set-up to be run by crews. Sometimes VLSC is a Council level event if Crews are too small to run it themselves. Believe, as soon as I can get my hands on the syllabus, I'm going to check into this. As a previous JLTC and NYLT Scoutmaster, I can't imagine the issues this will create. I typically get recruited every few years to get NYLT back on track in my Council, so I suppose in a year or so, I'll have my chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emb021 Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 A training update did go out, but it went to council training chairs and NYLT, WB, Kodiak & PH CDCs. This came out last week. A copy of this was posted to Files area of the Venturinglist on Yahoo Groups. It shows that many of the youth courses will be changed. VLSC will be changed, I don't think it will be dropped. (I'd have to check the document). NYLT is open to all Venturers, and a program-neutral version will come out in about a year or two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beavah Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 Yah, hmmm.... I usually don't get surprised by stuff, but this one surprised me. Do yeh know which subcommittee this originated in emb? It'd be nice to know who da folks were and what they were thinkin'. Founder help me! I'm startin' to agree more and more with Kudu. The notion of generic trainin' just rubs me the wrong way. Cub Scoutin' is fundamentally different than Boy Scouting, and both are fundamentally different from Venturing and Sea Scouting. Heck, I don't even care for mixin' up Varsity Scouting with Boy Scouting. Da notion that yeh can do one training which covers the lot of 'em is just drunken cow-tipping, whether we're talkin' WB21C or NYLT. It's like GM decidin' it only needs to build one car to meet the needs of all da families in the U.S. Nouveau "automobile management theory". That little area in Texas keeps driftin' farther and farther from reality no matter what we seem to do sometimes. Beavah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlFansome Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 The same thing is going to happen with Outdoor Leader Skills (OLS) and presumably BALOO and Outdoor Skills for Webelos Leaders (OWL). I got this via e-mail from Dan Zaccara a couple of months back in response to a question I had asked him: "We are in the process of revising OLS. When we do there will be one OLS for all Programs. The program specific outdoor courses will go away. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortridge Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 Neither of those changes - youth leadership training or outdoor adult leader training - makes any sense. I'd also like to know the reasoning. The skills you need to know to take a group of Cubs car-camping is fundamentally different from the skills to take a Boy Scout troop out backpacking or hiking. And running a patrol or troop is fundamentally different from running a crew or ship. Making everything generic and "universal" is only going to hurt both groups it seeks to help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emb021 Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 Beavah- ALL training, regardless of program, are all under a single committee (or task force). I think its called 'volunteer development' (they have sub-teams or I guess sub task forces on stuff like adult training, youth training, etc). This is all part of Mazzucca's view that the BSA is all one organization, and stopping the program-specific silos,etc. But like others, I think to a degree that's a mistake, because it overlooks/ignores the fact that each program IS different and does deserve training that is a bit unique. What was great about Boy Scout Leader Wood Badge was it really pumped you up about Boy Scouts. Powder Horn did the same for Venturing. Seabadge did this for Sea Scouts. I bet Varsity Scout Wood Badge and Cub Scout Trainer Wood Badge did the same for their programs. Now we loose that. Heck, at PTC there are no longer weeks focused on one program. Venturing courses are now spread out all thru the summer, same for Cub Scout & Boy Scout training. Sorry, but as a Venturing leader, if I wanted to 'hang' with cub scout or boy scout leaders, I can do that at home. When I go to PTC I want to hang with other Venturing leaders from around the country to learn from them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John-in-KC Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 It also ignores the small matter of "ages and stages". There's a fair bit of difference between the typical 14 year old 8th grader and the 17 year old about to be HS senior. There's a greater difference between the 14 year old boy and the 17 year old girl. I assume Venturing YP standards (4 sleeping areas, females mandatory on staff if there are females enrolled as students, ad infinitum) will apply to this new course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortridge Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 Not to mention the 11-year-old Tenderfoot Scout and the 20-year-old Quartermaster Award recipient. Just ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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