Calling all mythbusters

[NealOnWheels]

The following is from my council's newsletter. So all you mythbusters go at it...

 

Are you as Smart as a Webelos?

1. Cub Scouts can use power drills.

True___ False___

2. Citronella fl uid can be used to start campfi res.

True___ False___

3. Bears and Webelos can do outdoor cooking.

True___ False___

4. Webelos 2 can use propane stoves.

True___ False___

5. Tiger Cubs can go horseback riding.

True__ False___

If you answered TRUE to any of the above questions, please say the following sentence out loud:

I am not as smart as a Webelos!

Have you read your Age Appropriate Guidelines information sheet lately?

Download one at http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/BoyScouts/Age-AppropriateGuidelines.aspx

Plan on taking our Are you as Smart as a First Class Scout? in the November Scroll.

Brought to you by your Risk Management Committee

[scoutldr]

A guideline is, well...a guideline. Not a hard and fast rule or regulation.

 

 

[raisinemright]

I love the disconnect within scouting.

 

This weekend, Webelos are specifically invited to camp overnight with the troop, as a separate patrol at our Camporee. But, the guide says that Webelos cannot go to camporee's except as visitors.

 

The guide also implies that they cannot cook on campstoves by outlawing the use of fueled devices, however, the Outdoorsman activity badge expressly requires the Webelos scout to "assist in preparing, cooking and cleanup for one of your dens meals."

 

Hmmm.

 

Here's the scoop, we're going camping overnight at the camporee and the kids are cooking the meals.

[Stosh]

I think it is more important that the Webelos boys learn to cook on an open campfire with all it's dangers, rather than using a propane stove which is remarkably similar to the one I use at home every day. ???

 

I don't know when I first started cooking, but I do know that my very first activity as a Boy Scout (I was still wearing my CS uniform) was to hike out to a selected site, make a cook fire, cook a meal and hike back. I remember putting the screws to my mom so I got steak, baked potato and carrots for my meal. I cooked it all up in my old mess kit that I had been using for many years previously.

 

By the time I got to Scouts there was no such thing as propane stoves, maybe a white gas or two, but we all learned on wood. I was fortunate to have an outdoors family so I got to cook on wood fires long before I ever got to Boy Scouts.

 

When I did Webelos, we camped, cooked, and had a blast whenever we got the chance. Out of the 7 Webelos boys I had, they were not "over exposed" to such activities so that they were bored as Boy Scouts and instead 6 of them went on to Eagle.

 

One of the little fellas was really upset with the fire-building because he could build a fantastic fire lay, but couldn't start it... Because his mother told him he couldn't play with matches. I told him it was okay, but he still couldn't figure out how to get the book matches to work.

 

He's now an Eagle, just finishing up a tour in Afgahnistan. I'm thinking he turned out okay.

 

Get out there and do some scouting and if that means hyping up the Webelos so that they cross-over excited - so be it.

 

Stosh

[shortridge]

This is a crock of something that smells really bad.

 

The G2SS age-appropriate guideline chart suggests that Bears and below can't do outdoor cooking.

 

Yet Bear Achievement 9, "What's Cooking," outlined at boyscouttrail.com, includes as one of the options: "With an adult, cook something outdoors."

 

And Wolf Achievement 8, "Cooking and Eating," from the same source, includes the option: "With an adult, help to plan, prepare, and cook an outdoor meal."

 

Has that changed or is that incorrect? Can someone with current Wolf and Bear books nearby double-check that?(This message has been edited by shortridge)

[Sephrina]

The outdoor cooking is still in both the Wolf and Bear books. In fact, we have it planned for our next den meeting. We are going to bake cookies in a dutch oven and we bbq'd kabobs last year as a Wolf den.

 

Karen

[AlFansome]

shortridge-

There's a distinct difference between what a Cub can do at home with Akela and what a bunch of Cubs on a pack or den outing can do. The G2SS only covers scouting events and doesn't have any sway at home. If mom or dad want's to teach Johnny how to cook at home, then no problem..he gets his Achievement or Elective credit. No can do, however, at a pack or den event, if G2SS says so (and is taken into account by the adult leaders).

 

 

[eghiglie]

'Cub Scouts can use power drills?' Most of the ones they are way too heavy. We did however have cub use small impact screwdrivers to attach parts to bat houses. The trick was to have the tool pointing down, and their adult partner held the sides of the tool. The kids loved it. Drills however were the old hand crank type.

 

'Bears and Webelos can do outdoor cooking.' Sort of kind of. We had them flip pancakes on a flat griddle that went over a propane stove. Using a long match they lit the stove. I looked at my old Webelos Book when I was a WDL and Outdoorsman required some cooking. Over an open fire was another story. We did teach fire building, fire lighting and how to cold out a fire but not how to cook over one.

 

'Webelos 2 can use propane stoves.' Yes they can however this is not the part of putting it together and lighting it. Many times when the Webs camped they cooked over a stove with adults watching.

 

The way this this quiz is worded no kids in cubs would be allowed to roast his marshmallow for a smores.

 

Many 5th graders help in the kitchen and the grill under supervision of course.

 

I guess I was a bad DL, twice!!

[shortridge]

AlFansome -- Sorry, I'm just not convinced. That doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Why ban the activity at a group event, then encourage it at home?

[AlFansome]

 

1) liability and $$$: At http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/HealthandSafety/GSS.aspx, it's specifically mentioned in the "Scouting $$$ Pay Liability Claims" section. Mom and Dad don't have anyone to sue if little Johnny burns himself at the backyard grill.

 

2) family program: During the Wolf and Bear year, achievements are to be done primarily at home. (At least until this new FastTrack program was rolled out). It's much safer for mom and dad to supervise than it is for a den leader with 8 or 9 (or more) seven and eight year old boys running around. See point 1) above....

 

In the Wolf book, there's a picture of a scout flipping burgers and hot dogs at a family picnic with dad right over his shoulder. Clearly aimed at having the boys do the achievement at home.

 

In the Bear book, the suggested things to "cook" are smores and hot dogs wrapped in biscuit dough and tin foil to be thrown on some charcoal.

 

Do smores count as "cooking"? Can Wolves and Bears make smores? Who knows. The G2SS is just a guide anyway, right? :-)

 

All I know is that if you assume the BSA knows is *ss from it's elbow and if outdoor cooking is not for Wolves or Bears according to the G2SS, then the logical way for a boy to get his achievements done is with his family.

 

 

[Pack212Scouter]

As usual, I see the "guidelines" being quoted as rules. I'm not sure if it is still there, but for the longest time that chart came with the disclaimer that "they were guidelines and that what may not be appropriate in one part of the country may be the norm in another.". For instance.... Winter camping may not be appropriate for a Pack in Georgia, while it may be the norm for a Pack in Vermont.

[Crew21_Adv]

NealOnWheels and Fellow Scouters,

 

 

Just to add to the mass confusion.

 

I just checked my BALOO Syllabus again. There is a Round Robin session called "Cub Scout Cooking".

 

In my district, we have usually taught during IOLS were adults learn about patrol cooking and although they sanitize, food prep, cook, and KP, as an entire group just to gain the experience. Then, we teach them that a PL will fill out a fair duty roster with his patrol, dividing up the various duties.

 

We make the comparison during BALOO, that in a troop there is patrol cooking and the youth actually clean, cook and wash as a patrol. But during Cub Scout cooking, it is a parent-child event, to sanitize, prep, cook, then wash.

 

Just some inconsistencies in few of the BSA literature. A friend on a national handbook committee showed me (just over 10 years ago) that the previous Cub Scout Bicycling (parent-child) Pin had to ride about 50 miles further than a Boy Scout earning the Bicycling Merit badge, that was in the Sports and Academic literature for about 15 years until Sports and Academic Program pamphlets was changed/renamed to the Cub Scout Academic and Sports Program.

 

Maybe with the recent re-organization at national they will review their minor inconsistencies in their literature again.

 

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

 

[Stosh]

Here's the first scenerio:

 

As WEBELO's my boys: canoed out to a island with no facilities. Cleaned out a camp site, put up a tent/spent two nights, cooked all meals on an open fire, went fishing and played in the canoes and swam in shallow water around the beach area. Kids had a blast! This was our final outing with the den before they crossed-over into Boy Scouts. This was their reward for all the boys who had worked really hard to get their AOL.

 

Sounds like a G2SS nightmare, doesn't it? But every boy had their dad with them, and I as Den Leader had an extra registered adult and 2 seasoned Boy Scouts there on hand to help out. The Webelos were expected to do all the "work" and dads and others were there just to help. The boys did ask me to do the steaks because they didn't want to ruin them. The Saturday night meal was: Steak, baked potatoes (wrap in foil toss on coals), corn on the cob (leave on husks, toss on coals), and cobbler (toss in Dutch oven, toss on coals).

 

As it turned out, it was probably one of my more memorable outings in my whole Scouting career because these boys were SO excited about going out and having that much fun. My dad's all appreciated it because it marked for them the "end" of their direct involvement with their boys one-on-one in Scouting and now the boy was crossing-over and would now be working on striking out on one's own in Boy Scouting. We had a nice discussion on this around the campfire on Saturday night of that activity.

 

Second scenerio?

 

Without a RangeMaster, have the boys load a fully functional gun, which they kept in their tents the night before, with 65 grains of black powder (open and exposed), stand behind someone, while putting the barrel over the shoulder of that person, aim at other people and pull the trigger.

 

OMG! The G2SS Police just sucked all the air out of the room!

 

 

Stosh

[Alassa Eruvande]

@ jblake47/Stosh:

 

"Without a RangeMaster, have the boys load a fully functional gun, which they kept in their tents the night before, with 65 grains of black powder (open and exposed), stand behind someone, while putting the barrel over the shoulder of that person, aim at other people and pull the trigger."

 

I am really, really new to scouting, so can you please tell me why you had the kids aiming at people and pulling the trigger? Believe me, I'm no anti-gun person, but I genuinely want to know about this one. If you're pulling my leg, fine, but as a complete newbie, I'm a little dumbfounded.

 

*Alassa, trying not to suck the air from the room*

 

[evmori]

1. Cub Scouts can use power drills.

True

2. Citronella fluid can be used to start campfires.

False

3. Bears and Webelos can do outdoor cooking.

True

4. Webelos 2 can use propane stoves.

Webelos 2 doesn't exist which makes the question not valid.

5. Tiger Cubs can go horseback riding.

False

 

As someone posted, these questions are based on guidelines not hard and fast rules!