BSA Knife Policy

[FScouter]

What "paranoid streem of BS" are you referring to?? There is no BSA policy regulating the use of sheath knives.

[Eagle92]

I know that at least from the 1972 sheath knives were to be avoided according into the BSHB.

 

When I looked in my 1960s book, Sheath knife was not mentioned at all, but a jackknife was. Even my 2nd ed BSFB says that sheath knives are good aroudn the kitchen and have more romantic appeal that usefulness.

[FScouter]

Sneakers are to be avoided for hiking as well. BSA is going to hell in a handbasket.

[BadenP]

Eagle92

 

F-scouter is correct about sheath knives. An old BSHB is not a rule or policy guidebook. Avoided does not mean banned by any stretch, a knife is but a tool and any knife is potentially dangerous in the wrong hands.

[Eagle92]

BP,

 

Long weekend and need to clarify.

 

 

hadulzo was asking

 

"When was the big surge in sheath knife injuries that caused this paranoid streem of BS. "

 

I went back and looked, and found that older material discourages, not, repeat NOT, forbid, banned, prohibited, ad nauseum, sheathed knives, just discouraged and/or not recommend.

 

When I am not on council property, my council does have a ban in effect, except for OA events, on sheath knives, I will occasionally carry one. Won't carry it to CARY, NC though.

 

 

[TAHAWK]

I think you will find that "large sheath knives" are discouraged - whatever "large" meant or means. (It may sound good if you don't think about it.)

 

Is a 10-oz folding knife in a sheath a "large sheath knife"?

 

Is a 4 oz 6" blade Rapala filleting knife "large"?

 

In certain applications, folding knives are a hazard. Think cleaning fish.

 

Every camp I have looked into than absolutely bans "fixed-blade" knives, does not. Many sell fixed-blade knives.

 

The most common accident involving woods tools? "Closed [folding scout] knife on fingers."

[david.w.rahfeldt]

What makes this so confusing is that there is no NATIONWIDE BSA policy with regard to knives or sharp tools other than what you find relative to safe knife or ad / cutting yard policies and such. (guide to safe scouting, etc)

 

BUT

 

Many cities / counties have restrictions on the size and nature of knives that can be legally caried.

 

and

 

MOST Scout camps have restrictions on what kinds of knives and tools are acceptable in camp (for kids or adults both).

 

Most of our camps here in Washington State ban combat knives or other large fixed blade knives. NO you CAN NOT bring your butcher knife or 16 inch meat cleaver ... to camp, even for cooking ... and you sure can not bring that samurai sword for "oh so cool firewood chopping demonstrations".

 

What each camp places as restrictions for safety and common sense may vary.

 

However, in general, as a troop you are best off erring on the more conservative side of things.

 

I would do "knife inspections" and ban any knives that are in bad condition or threaten to fold up or break under use (I find a few of these abused and cheap junk knives every year), and make sure that whatever they bring, they have sense to use it correctly and safely.

 

For whittling ... I REQUIRE 2-3 inch locking blade knives. The longer the blade the greater the chance of bad leverage and their slipping, and as for locking, that is obvious ... unless you like to reattach fingers for your version of first aid, or show the other kids what exposed bone looks like ... I recommend requiring locking blades for ANY whittling ...

 

Always a good idea to do "knife safety" "ax safety" and "correct use of knives" and "how to keep your tool sharp" sessions BEFORE any summer camp or major event where knives are coming.

 

Do remind the chaps that "guide to safe scouting" bans duels, knife or ax throwing, or using them to hunt and kill animals, small or large during scouting events.

 

Medical experiments with knives are also banned unless they are an MD and have human review committee approval and parental consent. Oh ... and the Council permission ...

 

Also remind them of the "safety officer" concept that anyone using a sharp tool should have at all times a "safety observer" in their vicinity and a "safe zone" around them ... and to cut away from their body parts ...

 

folks forget the obvious ...

 

I think sharp metal objects suck the neurotransmitters directly from kids brains ...

 

never underestimate what lack of neurotransmitters can do to behavior.

 

 

[TAHAWK]

There is a national BSA policy on knives. It's just that it is vague, ill-informed, and, since subject to a multiplicity of inconsistent local option, largely useless. PC but useless.

 

"MOST Scout camps have restrictions on what kinds of knives and tools are acceptable in camp (for kids or adults both)."

 

Indeed they do, but, to repeat, the ones I have checked on (27) allow "butcher knives" "in camp," and use "filleting knives" in fishing classes and fixed-blade knives in craft classes. Most (19) sell fixed-blade BSA official fixed-blade "cooking knives" (and large lock-blade knives) in their Scout Shop or on the camp property. (Many health codes prohibit folding knives for food prep above a certain number of diners. It is more difficult to remove food residue from a folding knife.

 

"However, in general, as a troop you are best off erring on the more conservative side of things."

 

We do in our Troop. Being conservative, our PLC set a rule (4") on fixed blade knives carried by Scouts with their TNC.

"Trust should be the basis for all our moral training."

 

"I would do "knife inspections" and ban any knives that are in bad condition or threaten to fold up or break under use (I find a few of these abused and cheap junk knives every year), and make sure that whatever they bring, they have sense to use it correctly and safely."

 

A great practice. This is done by leaders - i.e. youth - or by Scouters?

 

"Do remind the chaps that "guide to safe scouting" bans duels, knife or ax throwing, or using them to hunt and kill animals, small or large during scouting events."

 

This ban is in accord with Scouting. It does not assume that things cause behavior but that appropriate behavior can be taught.

 

"Medical experiments with knives are also banned unless they are an MD and have human review committee approval and parental consent. Oh ... and the Council permission ..."

 

Say what? Are we missing an irony emoticon?

 

"I think sharp metal objects suck the neurotransmitters directly from kids brains ...

never underestimate what lack of neurotransmitters can do to behavior."

 

Not to mention dull metal (and plastic) objects on wheels, girls, and peer pressure.

 

The youth WILL be encountering fixed-blade knives and other things and situations that have hazards. We should be about teaching them.

 

Sadly, all learning regarding fixed-blade knives has disappeared from current Scout literature, along with much good information on use of axes and saws.

[Eagle92]

ACTUALLy Knife and Tomahawl throwing are allowed.

 

Under Shooting Sports on Page 30 of the current Guide to Safe Scouting found here scouts and Venturers can do the following.

 

 

Archery and Knife and Tomahawk Throwing

These are approved activities for Boy Scouts and Venturers following the Sweet 16 of BSA Safety.

 

 

http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/34416.pdf

 

Hope it helps.

[OldGreyEagle]

This is the section on knives from the Guide to Safe Scouting

 

A sharp pocketknife with a can opener on it is an invaluable backcountry tool. Keep it clean, sharp, and handy. Avoid large sheath knives. They are heavy and awkward to carry, and unnecessary for most camp chores except for cleaning fish. Since its inception, Boy Scouting has relied heavily on an outdoor program to achieve its objectives. This program meets more of the purposes of Scouting than any other single feature. We believe we have a duty to instill in our members, youth and adult, the knowledge of how to use, handle, and store legally owned knives with the highest concern for safety and responsibility.

 

Rememberknives are not allowed on school premises, nor can they be taken aboard commercial aircraft.

 

 

Note this sentence: "We believe we have a duty to instill in our members, youth and adult, the knowledge of how to use, handle, and store legally owned knives with the highest concern for safety and responsibility."

 

Not sure how you would label this politically corect, to teach youth to use the best knife for the purpose at hand. Rarely for the camping that is done in "most" Troop Campouts are sheath knives the best choice, but if one is, then fine, there is no prohibition against it. Use it as you would any tool

 

 

[drmbear]

Funny, I was one of the hatchet injuries as a youth, requiring four stiches in my knee. Ended up back at the campout after my field trip to the hospital.

[TAHAWK]

The blade-to-knee fit between standing Scout and hand axe is quite good. 0___0

[acco40]

"I think sharp metal objects suck the neurotransmitters directly from kids brains ... never underestimate what lack of neurotransmitters can do to behavior."

 

How true. At my 2nd or 3rd summer camp as Scoutmaster, myself and a number of scouts were quietly conversing around a couple of picnic tables set end to end. One of the new scouts, who was taking the pathfinder course (T21) sat down at an open spot and pulled out his pocket knife. He opened up the blade, put it in his right hand then suddenly swung his arm, fully extended, in a semi-circle. Those next to him and directly across had to quickly get out of his way to prevent from being injured. The scout with the knife did this in a very calm, "efficient" manner. After the initial shock subsided, I thought the other scouts were going to attack him. Before that happened, I quickly jumped in and questioned him on his behavior. He told me that he was just doing what he was taught in his class. "The instructor told us to make sure everyone is at least an arm's length away before we start to use our knife", he told me. Well, I couldn't get too mad but did have a long talk about a better way to accomplish his goal!(This message has been edited by acco40)

[SeattlePioneer]

Hello Acco---

 

 

I guess that's why they call it a "blood circle."

 

 

I had something similar happen when we were practicing fire drills with Tiger Cubs.

 

The boys had to figure out how to escape from a "burning" room, and we had parents waving red flags at some exits to symbolize fires blocking them.

 

So---- how to escape?

 

 

One boy went over to a window a backhanded it, breaking the window and giving himself a pretty good cut.

 

 

There WAS an unblocked exit, but he had his own solution figured out!

 

 

 

Seattle Pioneer

[bilgerat]

Wow!

 

Didn't know one little question would generate so much traffic!

 

No official guidance, and from what I've seen with some BSA regulations, not sure we want any. Otherwise, the Scouts will be using biodegradable round-tip scissors and gluing Popsicle sticks together during their once-a-year campout (in the church gym).

 

Thanks to all!