BSA Knife Policy

[perdidochas]

Our council bans the use of fixed blade sheath knives. The claim is that if you fall with a sheath knife on your belt, you are likely to have a serious injury. Personally, I think it's irrational, and probably comes from the day of the "Rambo" style survival knife. I think the other restrictions on pocket knives (length) probably has to do with state/local laws. For example, Atlanta has a law that bans lockblades over 3" blade.

[Mike F]

In the troop I serve, when a Scout earns First Class, he's earns the right to wear whatever sheath knife he wants to strap onto his belt. Many will start with something huge and later figure out that small-medium works fine for almost everything and is more practical to carry. When I carry one, it's a big honkin' one made in Russia.

 

They also know that if any scout - much less a First Class or above Scout - messes around with a knife, then he's in big trouble. We have never had any trouble.

 

There are some BSA camps which don't allow them. Fine - our guys keep them packed or leave them at home. I respect the fact the camps can set their own rules.

[SeattlePioneer]

Kind of an amusing thread as people wrestle with how to interpret and apply Guide to Safe Scouting advice on knives!

 

 

I routinely carry a swiss army knife attached to my keys, which suffices for the duties you might need for a knife during the day.

 

My father was a butcher and I worked in his shop as a youth. I have legacy knives from his business which I use and value.

 

A year ago I acquired a USMC Ka-Bar knife with a substantial 7" clipped blade ----which I characterize as a Bowie Knife. (That came from our District White Eelephant gift exchange, actually)

 

Not THAT is a knife I value having as well! A Bowie Knife has a small part in American frontier history, and the Ka-Bar was the (or at least a) knife that helped win WWII and subsequent wars in a small way.

 

Mostly what I use it for is splitting kindling ----better than an axe for that task in many cases.

 

And gad---- it's a tough knife! I keep pounding it through wood I plit and the blade never seems to dull up.

 

I did some Cub Scout instruction on knife use, sharpening and safety a year ago and I brought and talked about the Ka-Bar knife. Boys were suitably impressed. But mostly they worked on kitchen style chef's knives.

 

 

[boomerscout]

"Our council bans the use of fixed blade sheath knives. The claim is that if you fall with a sheath knife on your belt, you are likely to have a serious injury. "

 

There may be some truth in this if the knife is carried at the side or in front. A hard fall or trip may drive the knife thru the sheath & into the bod. It is for this reason we were taught to place the sheath (on a belt) in the back pocket. If you bend far enough to drive the knife in that position, you are probably already with the angels

[perdidochas]

Before I was made aware of the Council sheath knife rule, I used to carry a sheath knife in my daypack. It was too cumbersome for belt use, but is useful to have. So as not to be a hypocrite about rules, I've started leaving it at home. I have bought a larger folder, though.

[eisely]

Our council has no policy of which I am aware. When I have taught the "woods tools" segment dealing with knives in the OLS training I have advised new adult leaders as follows:

 

1. Large sheath knives are generally pointless. A folding blade knife is safer for most youth and meets all your ordinary camping needs.

 

2. There are some situations where a fixed blade sheath knife should be a mandatory part of personal equipment. Two that come to mind are scuba diving and white water kayaking. Several years ago one of the participants in this forum mentioned that in hiking on Guam they had to use machetes to clear their trails as they went. So clearly fixed blade knives, including in cook kits for large groups, have their proper places in scouting.

 

3. One needs to know local law regarding defining weapons, and regulating the carrying and use of weapons. Scouts and parents need to be advised to shake down day packs that may be used to carry school books after all outings where day packs may have been used to avoid drastic school penalties.

 

4. After saying all that I return to the recommendation that some kind of multi tool folding knife, either a Swiss Army knife or a Leatherman, is safest and best because you get other things you will also find useful.

[perdidochas]

#3 is a very valid point. Add coats/jackets/pants to the list of things that need to be double-checked for knives. The good thing is that many systems are starting to add some common sense to zero tolerance. For example, in my boys' system, there is a rule that if contraband (like pocketknives or lighters) found in the pockets by a student are handed in to a teacher by same student, then there will be no repercussions other than the parent having to pick up said item. However, if the contraband is found in another way (by another student, etc.) then little mercy is given. My wife is an assistant principal. She has gotten items from Scouts who forgot they had left something in their jackets.

[Proud Eagle]

The council I serve in has no univeral policy, but it does have one regarding its properties. Our camp use permit has, as its first and foremost rule you must agree to, that no sheeth knives are allowed on property. Which is really rather funny, when you start to realise that patrol box cooking knives should be in sheethes, and so should some of the ones down in the camp rangers building, and the handicraft building... etc...

 

I have often questioned this rule, no one knows who created it, why it was created, or even has any rational reason for it. Yet it survives and turns up on each version of the camp use form even when other rules have been dropped. I think there is some mythological status being attached to this rule, and like most mythical creatures it will be a day for rejoicing when this dragon is slain.

[SSScout]

"...when you start to realise that patrol box cooking knives should be in sheethes, and so should some of the ones down in the camp rangers building, and the handicraft building... etc..."

 

Well, yes, they SHOULD all be in protective sheaths when not in use. Kitchen knives are not generally carried around from the kitchen, carving knives should not be carried out from the craft area. AND when finished using them, they should be put away properly in a protective case or sheath or cabinet, thus protecting the edge and potential accidents. All that should be part of the Whittlin' Chip and Totin' Chip curriculum and training and expectations.

I think the prohibition is meant to prevent boys from just carrying the S/K just for the sake of carrying them. Macho thing.

Like not having cookies around to help prevent the temptation of overindulgence (who ate those chocolate chippers? I just bought them yesterday...). If the boy does not have a 7" Kbar close to hand, he won't be so apt to "play" with it, or "show off".

Scoutson has taken to collecting pocketknives, commemorating this or that event, or particularly neat or unique. He is finding out it can eat up his bankroll if he is not careful. He specifically avoids BIG knives, saying that they don't fit in his pocket and he has no need for everybody to know if he has a blade with him or not. He has learned to be selective in how a knife is used, different types for different purposes. He says he doesn't need a "survival" knife, as he can "survive" very well with the folding 4" lockblade he got for birthday awhile back. Or the multitool he has begun carrying in his pack.

 

Back to paying bills....

[boomerscout]

"he can "survive" very well with the folding 4" lockblade he got for birthday "

which may be confiscated by authorities since the blade is too long per many city ordinances.

He needs to leave it at home unless out camping.

[desertrat77]

Mike F, thanks for your post, it's good to see the true spirit of scouting alive.

 

Your scouts obviously responded to good training and leadership...by treating them like young men, instead of babies, they are learning some valuable lessons.

 

All scouts are capable of handling sheath knives safely--sadly, many are never given the chance.

[TAHAWK]

"Trust should be the basis for all our moral training."

[thunderbolt]

You have to admit to the fact that a good dull knife will improve a scouts first aid skills.

[ScoutinGermany]

Actually there are only councel rules about sheath knives and no scout in general rules. They are not actually any prohibitions against carrying sheath knives and if they are worn and used correctly then it should not be a problem. In my troop we always teach the boys the proper way to carry wear and use a sheath knife and a folder, I live in Germany and the laws are a bit different because some of my boys and I even carry things that arent always necessary but have their uses, like I always have my switchblade because I love it. Some of my boys bring a sierra saw and every now and then (with approval of parents) we have 3 day airsoft gun battles. I know that is usually looked down apaun in scouting but you should see the boys faces when we do this! And no believe it or not no scout has ever been hurt worse than a scrape or a bruise from falling over or tripping. We do all kinds of new things. At Ramstein air base they have rescently built a new PX(post exchange for civillians) and it has the rec center in it with a giant climbing wall. And yes I do find it worth it to make a 3 hour drive to spend two days of camping and climbing just so the boys can have fun. I know this is a little off topic but you all should take it under consideration to do new things every year and when you find good ones stick with it. Another good thing is to have an ASM 3 or third assistant scout master who is not older than 25 and can mix with the boys and talk to them and tell you what they tell him about how they like the campout or activity. If he has a bad report just dont do the activity anymore because the boys wont have fun! time to sign off for me I hope this helped.

[SeattlePioneer]

I have a Ka-Bar knife stamped USMC I got at a Scout White Elephant gift exchange a couple of years ago.

 

It does a terrific job of holding an edge if you have the patience it takes to put the edge on in the first place.

 

My daily use for this knife is splitting kindling for firing up my woos stove. Put the knife blade on a suitable piece of wood and pound on the clipped back part of the blade to split the wood. Far better than using an axe or hatchet.

 

The other use I have for it is explaining knife safety to Cub Scouts. I explain the history of the Ka-Bar knife as a Bowie knife and combat knife in WWII and later --- they eat that up.

 

The personal knife I carry on a keychain is a Swiss Army knife with a modest number of gadgets.(This message has been edited by seattlepioneer)