The latest idiocy by overly zealous school administrators

[Beavah]

Yah, mmhardy, best to be careful, eh? Generally speakin', there is discretion in terms of enforcement of this sort of thing under the law, either explicitly in da legislation or regulation, or implicitly in the jurisdictional separation of powers and the express or implied authority of particular bodies or positions.

 

In this particular case, there are also potential issues with respect to da search and substantive due process. And from a quick check on da California DOE site, it doesn't appear this district is even followin' the state guidelines (http://www.cde.ca.gov/ls/ss/se/zerotolerance.asp).

 

Law is a creature of the community, eh? It must reflect da mores of the populace and serve the just ends to which the people aspire. School officials and elected board members have a civic and moral duty to use their full experience, talents, and judgment in support of da goals of the populace and the values of the community.

 

It is incompetence or dereliction that hides behind "Oh, we had to because of da zero-tolerance statute". Our system of laws is not that simplistic or inept, or we never would have survived as a nation this long.

 

Now, to be fair, we don't get da full story in this article, eh? Apparently there was some sort of a "tip off", and we don't know what the school officials were told by another student. They might have been given reason to be worried or be harsh.

 

Beavah

 

[Dino]

The over zealousness had no shortage of lunacy.

One of my Scouts was suspended for three days for possession of a piece of a pink plastic pistol he found in a school trash can.

My son was suspended for possession of a cell phone, but students from outside the school district were not, and were allowdd to use them on campus.

To the poster who frequents court buildings, I'm sorry for you. I was refused admission to a court building because my the "weapon"--a BSA lapel pin. They also asked if I could show them the metal implanted in my chest.

At another court building, men are not allowed to wear belts (but Middle Easterners in flowing garb are not subject to inspection). Interestingly, a pair of US Marines in uuiform were required to remove their belts and battle ribbons before being allowed into the building.

[NWScouter]

Im remembering my schooldays, were a good kid did something, it a kid being a kid. The different kid or the less popular kid for doing that got the book thrown at him. I had some friends kick off a sports time because a waitress at German Club out at a German restaurant served them beer, while a group of drunken baseball players got their car airborne running a stop sign and landed on car of one our cheerleaders hurting her badly. The ball players were suspended from the team just about the time it took them to heal from their minor injuries.

 

Latter that spring I wrote a editorial for the school paper I was editor in chief of called A day in the Life of a _______ Athlete chronicling the rule breaking and stretching that I saw many of the stars.

 

I can understand why schools are so strict in their enforcement of the rules, with date rape, sexual harassment, bullying and assault that has been going all well be fore my time. Not even including events such as Columbine.

 

I also think that a police officer has a right to defend himself; he doesnt have to wait to be shot before he defends himself when someone points what looks like gun at him.

 

[tonys]

boy I hate these ZERO Tolerance policies why do we even have administrators if there is no decisions to be made.

just my 2 cents

[mmhardy]

Beavah,

 

School administrators have the zero tolerance policy hanging over their heads like the Sword of Damocles. View ANY case differently and the horse hair snaps.

 

Those working within such school systems know what I'm talking about. My challenge remains...if ya' don't like it then work to change it...see what kind of *^$@ comes flying your way. It's a no win argument.

 

[John-in-KC]

As I recall, more than a few of these zero tolerance policies (but not all) have backing in various State or Federal laws following Columbine.

 

It's real simple to me: If you don't like the policy, work to change it. That usually means getting onto a Board of Education.

 

Principals report to District Superintendents... who report to the Board, and in all but a few cases, we the people elect the Board.

[HobcawChaos]

At our HS there was a certain corner of the parking lot used by all the guys who hunted in the morning before school. Trucks with big wheels and covered in mud. Shotguns probably still in them. 'Course nobody ever messed with those boys' trucks. They'd kick %^(%&( . They were all sweethearts (BTW i'm a GS not BS ;-) just don't mess with the truck.

[evmori]

Zero tolerance policies never work. And the answer isn't to home school. The answer is get the school districts to change their policies!

 

How did they find out about the knife in this kid's car in the 1st place?

[Stosh]

I love the spin: Zero Tolerance. Why don't they just use the word: intolerance.

 

Our society which at one time was tolerant of others and accepting of their differences (kinda like an archaic form of "Diversity")is now a fractured society each exploiting whining their own version of intolerance.

 

What this has evolved into is a petty game by which our factions have degerated down to the "Mommy, he's looking at me" levels of maturity.

 

I once learned that sticks and stones may break my bones, but the whining words of intolerance and the lessons of intolerance (aka, Zero Tolerance) are being imprinted into our youth at an alarming rate and with words alone are being translated into sticks and stones and they are doing it at an ever younger age.

 

It may be the latest idiocracy, but it's rapidly becoming the accepted norm. Then it won't be as funny tomorrow as it may strike one today.

 

Zero tolerance is the first step in developing organized hatred based on fear of others who are different.

 

I am 59 years of age, I have carried a BSA pocket knife almost every day of my life since I was 9. It has only been in the past couple of years that people have begun to question my practice of 50 years. Just last week when I opened a package that came into work someone asked me if the people in HR knew I carried a weapon to work. I said, probably not because they haven't hassled me. Later that same day I get a visit from HR asking about the "weapon" I had in my possession. I asked them which one, my steel-toed boots that would do some serious damage, a wad of keys if exposed between fingers would also do some serious damage, or my belt which could choke someone to death, or the pen, scissor (3.75" blade), letter opener (2.25" blade) that was on my desk, I could stab some or maybe the BSA whittling knife with a 2.25" blade I use to open boxes with? (Company policy allows for pocket knives of less than 2.5") After reviewing my entire arsenal of weapons, I suggested with heavy sarcasm that maybe they meant to check out our safety manager because I saw a number of those box cutters, like they used to hijack the 9/11 airplanes, lying next to his keyboard. I knew he was checking out a number of different models for their safety aspects. Yep, they marched in perfect lock-step down there to check him out too!

 

Schools are not exempt from such stupidity, it's pandemic in all aspects of our society.

 

Stosh(This message has been edited by jblake47)

[Beavah]

School administrators have the zero tolerance policy hanging over their heads like the Sword of Damocles.

 

Yah, da Sword of Damocles had a particular penalty attached to it, eh? These zero-tolerance policies don't. Just becomes one issue of many in da school administrator's evaluation, eh? It's only a Sword of Damocles if the administrators are clueless about school law. And if they're clueless about school law, then perhaps they shouldn't be school administrators?

 

There's lots of ways to change a regulation, eh? Here's hopin' this young man finds a competent attorney and costs the district 6 figures of the taxpayer's money and a raft more public embarrassment. Problem is that those solutions, while they compensate the lad, never get around to personal accountability for the administrators and school board.

 

Yah, and as if on cue, my scouting news feed turned up another one this morning. A 6-year-old cub scout gets suspended and sent to juvenile offender alternative ed. for bringing his cub scout SPORK to school for lunch:

 

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/10/12/national/main5378839.shtml

 

Beavah

[Eamonn]

I think that most of us would agree that efforts to keep our kids safe are a good thing.

I have in the past posted that I'm not in favor of long lists of rules, regulations and that sort of thing. In part because these normally fail to cover everything that needs covered and end up not being worth the paper that they are written on.

The media seems to enjoy the times when silliness takes over.

The little fellow who ended up in hot water at Halloween for going to school dressed as a fireman with a plastic ax.

The spork (Was it a spork?)

I'm left not really being sure what is and what isn't a weapon?

We have read about kids getting into trouble for taking ordinary everyday pills such as Aspirins to school.

This I think is due to another Zero Tolerance Policy.

We can moan and complain about this Zero tolerance, but maybe it's part of our own making?

Maybe if everyone agreed that taking stuff to school that shouldn't be there we might end up with allowing common sense to be used.

If it's OK for one Lad to stash something like a knife in his car? Why not a cross bow? Or a gun?

If one kid can get away with a pocket full of aspirins, why not a pocket full of narcotics? The aspirins given to the wrong kid can do a lot of harm!

I wonder what the tone of this thread would be if little Annie had taken the knife to school to cut the cake that Grandma had baked and Nasty little Lad had taken it and killed another student with it?

Would we all be asking why she was allowed to take a knife to school?

Eamonn

[mmhardy]

Overheard at a closed door disciplinary board at your local school district.

 

So Mr. School Principal you let John the Eagle Scout off with a warning for having a hatchet in his car after a weekend campout.

 

Whats that?..Hes a good kid? You is uncle or something?

 

Ill tell you what Mr. Principal, maybe you can try exercising that good horse sense you developed over the past 25 years with your next employer. The School Board put that policy into place for everyone. Your job is to carry out that policy. Zero tolerance means just that. Period!

 

It may vary by State but in my experience school administrators are to implement the policy of the elected school board. There is no school law.

 

[SMEagle819]

It's too bad that the school administrators cannot use even a shred of common sense. Quote from the article Beavah posted:

 

"There is no parent who wants to get a phone call where they hear that their child no longer has two good seeing eyes because there was a scuffle and someone pulled out a knife," said George Evans, the school district board's president.

 

Poke out someone's eyes? Can't a pen, pencil, finger, paper clip, or crayon do the same thing? If I can recall my Cub Scout years, one of these "weapons" this Cub had a school, the knife would have trouble cutting butter. C'mon people, just a little common sense in the world would go a long way....

[Eamonn]

" C'mon people, just a little common sense in the world would go a long way.... "

Isn't part of the problem that there seems to be a lack of common sense?

Parents or maybe I should say some parents? Are in such denial that their little sweetheart can do no wrong and seem willing to move Heaven and earth to defend the little sweetheart that having a rule which doesn't allow for any flexibility (What might seem like common sense.) Is the safe way to go.

Eamonn.

[Eagledad]

>>I wonder what the tone of this thread would be if little Annie had taken the knife to school to cut the cake that Grandma had baked and Nasty little Lad had taken it and killed another student with it?

Would we all be asking why she was allowed to take a knife to school?

Eamonn