registration fees

[monkeyboyev]

Hey everyone, im new to this forum, and I'm the senior patrol leader for my troop. I come here with an issue that i don't exactly know how to go about solving. Some of the adult leaders in the troop seem to be pulling random numbers out of nowhere for payment for annual registration. It even seems as if "annual registration time" comes twice a year for us, and they ask us to pay $150 per scout and $100 per adult volunteer. However, I do not see any evidence/reciept system as to where this number comes from. Same goes for when we go on camping trips. For example, we're planning a camping trip to catalina island off the coast of california. at first we were going to go to cherry valley, and we were told it would cost $150 for the whole weekend with riflery, archery, meals for the weekend, etc included. However, the plans were changed and we're going to be staying at a normal "public" campsite near avalon which only costs $12 a night per person. Yet the $150 fee for the camp has not changed, even though our activities are limited compared to what they would have been at cherry valley. How would I approach this issue with one of the adult leaders? I don't want to ask them directly because I do not want to make it seem like i'm quesitoning their authority, but I would just like to see some numbers/proof as to how these $150 fees are being calculated.

 

 

Thanks in advance for any advice

[John-in-KC]

The BSA National Registration Fee for 2010 will be $15.

 

The Boy's Life subscription will be $12.

 

Direct contact leaders should get BL, as a program support tool.

 

So, that is the first $27.

 

Now, as to fees: I think this is a worthy topic for you to bring up to your PLC. If a Scout is Thrifty, and even one of you is earning his own way to his fees, he has the right to know how the Committee decided to resource the program. You're going to need a couple allies within the leadership to help you push the noodle uphill, so the PLC votes to request an explanation.

 

Then, it depends on how your Troop operates its Committee. If, as it properly should, it gives time for the SM to present his report, he's one person who can carry your water. BUT!!!, if your Troop sends you as SPL, under SM supervision and mentorship, then you can ask the Committee directly for a budget and fee breakdown. It's a reasonable request.

 

I will say the youth membership has one expense adults do not: PATCHES. I just called my Scout Shop (a BSA Supply one): A rank patch is $1.50. A Merit Badge is $ 2.29. I cannot represent your committee from afar (for all I know, they've pulled the fee numbers out of thin air, or they have analytic rigor behind them), but youth members do get more patches from the system.

 

Let us know how this turns out

[Buffalo Skipper]

monkeyboyev,

Welcome to the forum. Expect a variety of different answers here, so keep an open mind to the answers you receive.

 

Different unit sometimes charge different things and call them "registration fees." Our troop pays all our registration fees and Boys' Life out of our general fund and we charge $10/month dues. The actual cost of registration with National is now $15 and Boys' Life is $12. Some councils charge separately for supplemental insurance (ours does not). So you are beginning to understand that there is not necessarly a single answer for everyone.

 

If you are part of a boy-led troop, the PLC should have direct involvement in the determining the expense and costs of outings. Ours does, though the final answer on cost of a trip may be determined by the committee. You may want to just ask your Scoutmaster what the trip cost is and what the expenses are. Tell him you are wanting to learn how to plan and budget trips and costs. Make it a friendly discussion and see what he says.

 

Though I grew up across the country from you, I found myself working with Sea Scouts out of Long Beach when I was a much younger. I have spent many a night onshore and on a boat out at Catalina Island. Great place, and a lot of fun.

 

Good luck.

 

[Lisabob]

I don't think there is any harm in asking this question. THe trick is framing it so that you don't put anybody on the defensive. A respectful request that you'd like to understand how the costs are arrived at so that the PLC can assist in planning more affordable activities (during tough economic times, especially) should be well-received by the adults you are working with. You should certainly feel comfortable bringing up this issue with your Scoutmaster and asking him or her to help you get the information you need.

 

If such a request is NOT well received, then it might be time to find a committee member or maybe one of your parents to start asking a little harder-edged questions.

[monkeyboyev]

so as ive understood so far, the cost without supplemental insurance shouldn't be much more than $27 a year. I understand some extra fees for patches, etc but that altogether shouldnt exceed about 15-20 dollars, resulting in an annual fee somewhere in the $40s-50.

[Buffalo Skipper]

monkeyboyev,

That's pretty much correct. However, there may be something your committee is covering which you may not be aware of. We charge montly dues totaling $120/year. When you subtract the cost of the registration/BL, that come to less than $100/per person. We do a couple of couple of "above average" campouts per year, and charge no extra. We cover all transportation/gas expenses for summer camp (that came to $400 last year). We bought new tents ($700); the troop pays for all the propane for out troop stoves/lanterns ($75). We repainted the inside and outside of our building, and changed out the locks in our doors; we purchased over $200 in rope and related supplies and replaced a broken dutch oven; and then there's the website, troop neckerchiefs, Troopmaster software costs, printer ink, paper, and many other expenses.

 

In other words, before you jump to conclusions, politely ask (as Lisabob suggests, in an unassuming manner) what other expenses does the troop absorb annually? Does your troop also charge for dues? I know of some which do not and only charge an annual fee. If that is the case, your $150 (for registration) is not really out of line.(This message has been edited by Buffalo Skipper)

[Lisabob]

Well it depends a LOT on what else the troop is paying for. Some troops charge the bare minimum dues of $30/year or so, while others are much higher. My son's troop charges a bit more than what you list, but they use the additional money to buy gear for the troop. Some troops include camp out fees in their dues/others don't. Some include a special troop T shirt, hat, necker, etc./others don't. Last year, some were talking about including a gasoline or transport fee (when gas was $5/gallon).

 

So there is no simple answer to your question, except to politely ask your Scoutmaster to sit down and look at the numbers with you.

[skeptic]

Others have noted the general fees, and mentioned incidentals. But, in regard to Cherry Valley, it may simply be they could not get into the camp for a weekend activity. On the website of the council that owns the camp, they mention $155 for a number of 2009 weekend camp activities. What that includes is not mentioned. If it includes the transportation to and from from Long Beach or San Pedro, as well as food and tentage, it is a good price; but likely filled up quickly too. Their week long camp, just like Emerald Bay, is booked two years out, and now exceeds $500 per week (includes the boat).

 

So, if your leaders determined they could not get into Cherry Valley, then they may have decided to work it out independently. That would mean cost of the boat to and from, camp fees, and food costs, along with incidental related costs. $150 very likely could be reasonable with those things in mind. But you would need to discuss it all with your leaders.

 

On occasion, ideas come up that seem great, but they are based on outdated information. Once the info is updated, things can sometimes be dramatically different, especially if info is more than a few years old.

 

Good luck.

[monkeyboyev]

well i know for a fact that the $150 registration fee does not include any activities/equipment for the year. we pay separate dues for every campout/activity we do, such as fishing or shotgun shooting, etc. and those cost 50-200 each depending on the activity. If we were not charged separately for individual activities, then i would understand how $150 for registration would be reasonable. But asking for $150 for registration, and another $100 per "extended/out of the ordinary campout" seems a bit much. Our troop only has about 14 boys altogether, so we're relatively small

[Lisabob]

Well that does seem a bit high, but there could be other factors in there that neither you nor we on the forum are aware of. And (or) it could also be that your troop is planning too many outings that are just really expensive. I know that my son's troop has a couple of extraordinary outings. One popular event is dog sledding, which costs more than a week of summer camp. Another is luging, which is also fairly expensive. But those are also off-set by other local activities for which costs are low. They are doing a fishing camp in a couple of weeks for which the cost is $11. That includes food and site fees.

 

Again, the only way you'll fully understand what is behind the higher fees you are describing is to ask. Be polite and explain that you're asking for the info so that the PLC can plan affordable outings, and you should not run into much resistance.

 

 

[John-in-KC]

Lisa is giving you spot-on advice here. I think it's time for you to call your Scoutmaster and ask him to breakfast somewhere. Before you go to the PLC, and certainly before you go to the committee, ask him for his thoughts. One of the most important jobs of a Scoutmaster is to be your mentor as the SPL.

 

We can't evaluate your units budget. We don't have access here to how your Troop Committee made its decisions.

 

I know that a few years ago, when I was CC, $100 a year was not unreasonable in terms of a dues structure for youth members in a Troop. We split it up $50 at recharter, and $50 just ahead of Scout Camp.

 

Remember: A boy advancing one rank and earning 6 merit badges in a year burns through $15.24. That doesn't count the pocket cards, nor the Mom's pins, nor the pin that you get to wear...

[Beavah]

Yah, monkeyboyev, a Scout Salute to yeh for wanting to get your PLC involved in the finance side of troop planning. The boys in your program should have a hand in budgeting and expenses as part of their planning of outings.

 

Once yeh get into that, you discover that there are all kinds of things that cost money "in the background" that you might not be aware of. The two biggest things for most businesses are "capital amortization" and "overhead". Capital costs are costs for things like gear which yeh want to budget for, which means you build in some "reserve" each year for their eventual replacement. So for example, if you buy a tent for $200 and you figure the life of a tent under your troop's heavy usage is 10 years, yeh better be setting aside $20 per year.

 

Overhead is all the administrative costs, eh? Costs for the troop website, costs for badges, costs for your meeting place, BSA registration, computer software like Troopmaster, postage, refreshments for committee meetings, markers for PLC meetings, etc. It also might include costs for adult trainin', extra background checks on new adults, costs for youth leader training, etc.

 

Then yeh get into program costs. There can be a lot of hidden program costs - things like gasoline, fuel for stoves, first aid supplies, that sort of thing which might not be folded into the individual trip costs. In my experience, most troops give the individual trip cost as camping fees and individual costs (and maybe transport), but don't figure in all the incidentals. Payin' for the incidentals has to come from somewhere.

 

Finally, some troops keep some reserve to provide camperships for their scouts whose family circumstances are such that without help, they wouldn't be able to afford scouting.

 

The numbers you're giving aren't really out of line, but you're quite right that it's important for your troop to be "transparent" with its finances, eh? People should understand where money is comin' from and goin'.

 

So follow Lisabob's advice, eh? Just ask. Politely, so that you and your PLC can do a better job of plannin' outings.

 

Beavah

 

[Twocubdad]

Our troop charges $100 annual dues and doesn't pay out much for individual activities. If there is a fee associated with an activity, everyone generally pays their own way. We have a separate one-time fee we charge everyone who joins the troop, so equipment generally doesn't come out of the $100.

 

Even still, we use every bit of the $100. Office supplies like markers, pens, and copies; consumable camping supplies like fuel, lantern mantles, rope and trash bags; program materials like PL and SPL handbooks, we spend over $100 a year on position patches. We're all the time getting hit with little expenses for odds and ends like gas money when we went water skiing back in the summer. It adds up.

 

My point is, not knowing any details as to how your troop spends its money, based on my experience they don't sound too far out of line to me.

 

Please be very careful and respectful in how you approach your leaders. In all honesty, your original post seemed a bit accusatory ("...the adult leaders seem to be pulling random numbers out of no where....") You should go in with the attitude they they know what they're doing and have the best interests of the Scouts at the fore. Make sure you are asking for the right reasons.

[John-in-KC]

Given the current state of financial management software, from Excel to Quickbooks, I don't think it's too much that a Troop be able to show a budget.

 

Even if the data is a reconstruction from records, a Troop treasurer should be able to show how the money is spent. I'm on a budget subcommittee at my church. Our planning process is a combination of actual performance, guidelines, and requests.

 

If the Scouts are being Thrifty, and are directly contributing their luchre as dues, they have the right to know the process and the results.

 

Further, it's a tremendous introductory opportunity for American Business or Personal Management merit badges

 

All that said, I agree with all: Go in respectfully and inquiringly. Work with your Scoutmaster, let him help you form your question to the Committee.