Joining requirements in the new Handbook

[BDPT00]

In some other threads, we've been discussing things that might be "gray."

I see the Joining Requirements (page 17) that way: "Be a boy who is 11 years old, or one who has completed the fifth grade or earned the Arrow of Light Award and is at least 10 years old, but is not yet 18 years old."

My question regards 5th grade and 10 years old. I don't find the statement clear. I think I know what it's saying, but I don't think it's written well.

Then we look at page 15 regarding Venturing age requirements: "for young men and women who are about 14 through 20 years of age." I know what the requirments are, but most people don't, and this doesn't help. (most people think its age 14)

And then there's Varsity. Clear as mud.

BDPT00

[prairie]

I see it as this:

 

1: Be a boy who is 11 years old

2: Be a boy who has completed the fifth grade

3: Be a boy who has earned the Arrow of Light Award

 

Choose one of the above and is at least 10 years old, but is not yet 18 years old.

 

[BDPT00]

prairie,

I read it the same way, although the 11 year old and the AOL are redundant (it's been a while, but didn't one need to be 10.5 to earn an AOL?)

The punchline for me is that the 5th grader needs to be 10. That's buried in the rest of the sentence (with the "ands" and "ors" and no commas). I can see a 9 year old 5th grader thinking that he's eligible. Is he? I don't think so, but it's not perfectly clear.

BDPT00

 

[Hal_Crawford]

"Clear as mud" Not really.

 

A boy needs to be eleven or has to have completed 5th grade or he has to have earned the Arrow of Light. Under no circumstances can he be less than ten nor 18 or older.

 

So, to be clear

11 year old is OK

10 year old who has completed fifth grade is OK

10 year old who has earned Arrow of Light is OK even if he is still in 5th grade.

 

A ten year old who has not completed 5th grade or earned Arrow of Light will have to wait.

A nine year old who has completed 5th grade will have to wait.

As has been pointed out a 9 year old cannot earn AOL but even if he somehow did he would have to wait.

 

18 years or older can't join Boy Scouts.

 

More detailed information about Venturing and Varsity is on page 427.

 

All is revealed.

Hal

 

[BDPT00]

Again, I agree with that interpretation.

For Venturing, the age is 15, or ...

(most automatically say 14)

 

Varsity is a totally different subject. The handbook implies that Varsity somehow offers more adventure than Boy Scouting, and I don't agree.

BDPT00

[Hal_Crawford]

According to both the Handbook and the BSA website the requirement to join Venturing is 14 years old AND completed 8th grade. I know less than squat about Varsity.

 

Hal

[ghermanno]

Guys,

 

We are interpreting based on our knowlkedge of Scouting. If the requirements are "exactly" stated as BDPT00 stated in the first post, someone needs to let National know. As stated the requirements are:

 

A. 11 years old

or

B. Completed Fifth Grade

or

C. AoL & 10 but < 18

 

 

Using that matrix, a 9yr old that graduated fifth grade IS elegible (consequently, a five yr old that graduated fifth grad is elegible).

 

I hope they amend/correct that as I know parents that will fight it because "Tommy is a smart boy, way ahead of his pears and he wants to join Boy Scouting not Cub Scouting. Your book says he is eligible so he must be allowed to join." I had to fight a parent that put an 8 yr old in WEBELOS.

 

YiS,

 

Rick

[Buffalo Skipper]

I think you must look at the placement of the commas in these requirements:

Meet age requirements. Be a boy who is 11 years old, or one who has completed the fifth grade or earned the Arrow of Light Award and is at least 10 years old, but is not yet 18 years old.

Interpretted this way,

1) Any 11 year old boy.    OR2)  Any 10 year old boy (not yet 18) who has completed the 5th grade or completed the Arrow of Light.

In other words you must be at least 10 years old, if you have completed the 5th grade of earned AOL; OR you must be 11 years old.

This makes sense, and I believe is the intent of the new rules.

I ran into a similar gramatical/punctuation mismatch when I was in the 10th grade (it was a memorable moment for me--sad but true).  There should not be a comma before the first "or" because there are only two plural items in the phrase <a comma is required ONLY if there are more than 2 plural elements>, however the second element of the plural phrase contains commas <hence requiring a semicolon to separate the plural elements>.  As my 10th grade English teacher and I agreed, regardless of the actual grammar rules a semicolon ( ; ) preceeding the first "or" would provide more definitive separation of items.

Just my 2

[ScoutNut]

The joining requirements are listed on the the BSA Youth Application.

 

Nothing "ambigous' or "gray" about them -

 

CUB SCOUTS -

 

Tiger CubMust be under the age of 8, have completed kindergarten or be in the first grade, or be age 7.

 

Cub ScoutMust have completed first grade but not completed third grade, or be age 8 or 9.

 

Webelos ScoutMust have completed third grade but not completed fifth grade, or be age 10 but not yet 11 1⁄2.

 

BOY SCOUT -

 

Your son can be a Scout if he has completed the fifth grade AND is at least 10 years old

OR is age 11

OR has earned the Arrow of Light Award AND is at least 10 years old

but has not reached age 18.

 

VARSITY TEAM -

 

A male youth must be at least 14 years of age and not yet 18.

 

VENTURING CREW / SEA SCOUT SHIP -

 

I am at LEAST 14 years of age AND have completed the eighth grade

OR am 15 years of age and not yet 21.

 

I really do not see what your confusion is about. This "mud" looks perfectly clear to me.

 

I also do not understand your objection to Varsity being considered high adventure. Per BSA, the Varsity program focus is high adventure/sports for older boys. Why do you think this is not true?

 

Again, the "mud" looks pretty clear.

 

[BDPT00]

The age requirements as you state them are perfectly clear, and thank you.

The reason I brought it up is because I've read in this forum about alleged Scouts under the age of 10.5, and I consistantly see 14 as the age for Venturing (not "14 and completed 8th grade").

I think the Handbook could have been written more clearly.

As for Varsity ... What can a Varsity Scout do that a Boy Scout or Venturer can't?

BDPT00

 

[sherminator505]

I suspect that one of two things will happen. Either the BSA will issue an errata and change this in future printings, or we will have our first 11-year-old Eagle in about 18 months.

[Hal_Crawford]

OK. I am going to add to the silliness. From the Youth application form:

 

BOY SCOUT -

 

Your son can be a Scout if he has completed the fifth grade AND is at least 10 years old

OR is age 11

OR has earned the Arrow of Light Award AND is at least 10 years old

but has not reached age 18.

 

So does this mean that a 12 year old who has not completed the 5th grade or earned AOL is not eligible? I can hear the outrage of fifth grade dropouts across the nation.

 

Hal

 

[ScoutNut]

"OR is age 11"

 

A 12 year old is past the age of 11.

 

A 12 year old kindergartener can join a Boy Scout Troop if his parents approve.

 

[sherminator505]

I think the app needs one more "at least" in it. Then we can all be happy and the 5th grade drop-out can join the Troop along with his little brainiac brother who can now earn Eagle before he turns 12!

[Lisabob]

BDP - Just FYI, the 10.5 year age requirement was changed several years ago now. Currently there is no strict age requirement for AoL, and the minimum joining age for boy scouts is 10.

 

Sorry that I can't tell you exactly when the 10.5 requirement was changed, but it has been at least 5 years, probably more.

 

 

 

(This message has been edited by lisabob)