W2 Troop/SM visits

[lrsap]

I apologize if this is the wrong category for this post, but involves Cubs and Boy Scouts. I am preparing my den for their W2 year. I want my parents to be well informed when visiting troops. To do so, I want to give them a list of questions for the SMs they will meet. The ones I have are:

 

What is the plan for a new scouts first 6 - 12 months?

How are your patrols set up?

How often do you camp?

How often do you have other outings, and what sort of outings would they be?

What is, and who is in, your adult leadership structure?

What is the troop's policy on cell phones? Other electronics?

What equipment will my scout need?

What does the troop expect of my scout?

What does the troop expect from me?

Do scouts taught mainly by scouts, or are they taught more by adults?

Does the troop have a set schedule to move a scout to Eagle, or is it left to the scout to earn on hos own, with encouragement?

 

I guess I'm wondering from the SMs out there is if this is a good idea at all, and if so did I miss anything?

 

Thanks for any input you may have.

 

 

[John-in-KC]

First two questions: Who is the Senior Patrol Leader? Who are the current Troop Guides?

 

Third question: May I speak to them?

 

Many of your questions should be asked to the SPL, not the SM. If the SM is doing all the talking, there's a good shot the Patrol Method is not in play.

 

Now, the next question:

 

What type of camping does the Troop emphasize: Heavy (trailers, patrol boxes, big gas stoves) or light (backpacking based)?

This question will drive equipment selection for families. Light camping has a heavier initial investment, but quality gear lasts years.

 

Many of your questions for the SM should be addressed to the SPL and the Guide.

 

This is a question for the Scoutmaster:

- Does your unit program planning follow the annual program themes as presented by the National Council at District Roundtable?

Program support is one of the obligations BSA has to the Chartered Partner and the unit.

 

This is a question for the Committee Chair:

- What is your working relationship with your Chartered Partner?

This question tells you if the Troop and the Partner are working to further the Aims and Methods of Scouting. An insular relationship on either side is not a good thing.

 

Back to the SM:

- What will you do to help me untether from my son, so he can get the full benefit of the program?

The more independence you allow your son, the more risk of failure/success he has on his own, the stronger a young man he will be. A Troop that keeps you at a distance from him is good.

[artjrk]

I believe most of these questions are ones the boys should be asking of the SPL. At the same time the parents can be asking some of these to the SM in a separate area. If both boy and parent receive the directly it allows them to get a better feel of the TroopMy advice is to get the boys to visit a Troop during a regular meeting and not an "Open House". It allows the boys to see how a Troop truly functions and realize that it is not the same as Cub Scouts.

[Eagle92]

Irsap,

You got some great replys. The WBELEOS need to be asking these questions of the SPL, and PLs. In Boy Scouts, the youth should be running things, if not then the entire den need to RUN AWAY and find a troop that is youth run!

 

I know that the adults will ask soem of the same questions of the adults, and as suggested do it in a separate area.

 

In addition to the questions already offered, I would add the following

1) what type of training do you provide your youth leaders (that's the SMs primary job)

2) How do you mentor a youth leader when they fail at a task (Boy Scouts is about the youth learning through both their successes and their failures).

3) Why is it so important to have "organized chaos" at troop meeting b/c the youth are running it. Why can't the adults do things? or WhY is the patrol method so important, and why is it so "messy"?

4) What type of activities, especially high adventure activities, does the troop do?

5) can I sign up as an ASM ?

 

[IM_Kathy]

the boys should have a list of boy type question to ask SPL, Guides, ASPL, and the like...

 

how often they camp, where all do they go, what gear will I need, why do you like this troop, are there a lot of merit badge councilors and are they nice, and the like.

 

the parents should have a list of other questions to ask the SM or ASM....

 

when are troop meetings, how are the boys split into patrols, how often do they have outings, what ratio adult/boy do they have on these outings, are there troop dues, does the troop do fundraisers to help of set costs, what is typical amont of money needed for each camping trip, what adult roles are needed filled that they could help with, are adults expected to take turns attending outtings, what is required to be a mertit badge councilor and do you have a list of all for the troop so I can see if there's a badge that's not being taught by a troop member that I can do, what are troop rules on electonics, what are the troop rules on uniform, what are the troop rules on cursing and bullying, and the like

[RememberSchiff]

Those are good questions.

 

As a parent, I would just observe at the first meeting or two, let my son ask his own questions but mostly I want him to mingle. If my son was still interested in the troop, then I would ask questions drawn from my observations. I would also attend a troop committee meeting. Remember scout programs will differ from troop to troop, none may be 100% what you are looking for AND their program could change with a turnover/aging-out of membership. Not every troop will make a good first impression - attendance may be poor because you visited during flu season!

 

Observe if scouts are excited to be there or eager to leave.

 

Observe who is in charge? Who is giving the orders? Who is leading the meeting and how? Who is giving the announcements? Scouts, Scoutmaster, Troop Committee, or Helicopter Parents. This is important because every troop will say it is boy run but few are.

 

Observe if all scouts are engaged and having fun. Are the scouts friendly and inviting my scout to participate?

 

Observe if the adult leaders are observing or not. You will be entrusting your son in their care.

 

At the Troop Committee meeting, I would ask about troop finances particularly fund-raising. Some troops require all scouts to participate in fund-raising, others allow an opt-out with cash contribution. What are the yearly costs for a family? Ask about attendance requirements and see if that will work with your son's schedule. Ask who plans the program year and ask for a copy of the program calendar.

 

Talk to parents and scouts.

 

Then talk to Scoutmaster. Ask about his/her background and interest in Scouting, what does he consider to be important in scouting, how are emergencies handled, how bullying is handled, ...

 

Avoid troops that boast about the number of Eagles they have, about being a (whatever) Quality unit (meaningless), or say they never cancel an event due to weather.

 

My $0.02

[Twocubdad]

Last winter one of the other SMs in the district did a joint Boy Scout/Cub presentation at Roundtable on Webelos transition. I thought he did a pretty good, but some how all the guys from our pack heard was all the stuff I, the SM, should be doing for the pack, including attend Webelos meeting about once a month or so.

 

Um, NO. NOW is the time to start paying attention to that whole boy-led thing. I want to make a strong impression on the Webelos that the boys are the ones they will be listening to in the troop, not the adults.

 

I think your better course would be to sit down one-on-one with the SM (plus the other W2 leaders, if there is more than one den) and ask what the troop does with Webelos transition. Unless his answer is, "not much," let the troop take the lead. I assume this is your first time crossing over into Boy Scouts, but the troop does it every year.

 

Our troop plans a big Webelos campout weekend the first of November (usually perfect camping weather). The Scouts plan the whole weekend to give the Webelos a feel for what they will see in the spring. The troop leaders haul the parents off somewhere for a two-hour Boy Scout 101 class where we answer all your questions (plus many more.) We have a 12 page booklet we give the parents with all the info. The booklet started as the syllabus for the session, but so many parents asked for copies, we expanded it into a more readable format.

[Eamonn]

All this is great stuff.

But...

I can't help that maybe just maybe we are guilty of over thinking all of this.

Kids will join a Troop with their pals

They don't know or care about any of this Patrol Method or boy led stuff.

Parents will allow their son to join a Troop that is convenient for them.

If the Troop meets on the night that Mom plays Bingo or Dad goes bowling? Chances are that the Troop is not going to see their kid.

Also Troops change and at times change a lot.

My son joined a Troop which had a SM that he really liked, but the guy had to quit due to a new job. In next to no time the Troop became nothing more than a MB factory.

I've seen wonderful Troops go bad and bad Troops become wonderful.

Eamonn.

[John-in-KC]

E,

 

That indeed is a big part of it. We go where our pals are

[BuffaloSR793]

Those are some great questions. Good advice too, the W2's need to be speaking with the Troop youth leaders. Parents can speak with the adult Troop leaders.

 

Sounds like a great group of Scouts and Parents.

[John-in-KC]

Adults need to speak to the youth leaders too. They need to understand that the working republic of a Troop is led by the SPL, and that the SM is a mentor, not the executive.

[NeilLup]

Twocubdad,

 

With deep respect, what you are suggesting flies directly in the face of what data suggests creates successful recruiting of Webelos Scouts.

 

The time to emphasize training in youth leadership is AFTER THE BOYS JOIN YOUR TROOP. The data (and yes, I have developed that data) suggests that having a Troop leader, ideally the Scoutmaster visit Webelos Den meetings and enable the Webelos Scouts to become confortable with him/her is the single most important factor in motivating Webelos Scouts to join and thrive in a Troop.

 

The youth influence and leadership can come through a solid Den Chief. But if you don't have that Den Chief, the Webelos Den is not the place to draw the line and expect the Scouts to go "cold turkey" with youth leadership.

 

Visit them, Make them comfortable. Get them into your Troop. Then, train in youth leadership.

[gwd-scouter]

Interesting topic. The thing I think is most important to find out about a troop you are considering joining is just what goes on during a campout. You will found out more about how the troop functions (patrols, boy led, etc.) than during a regular scout meeting. Join them for a campout - more than one if you can.

 

Irsap - your list of questions is OK and covers most of the questions I've been asked by parents. But, with respect to John in KC, I wouldn't expect Webelos leaders or parents to be ready to start questioning the SPL or Troop Guide or any of the youth leaders. From my experience, Webelos leaders and parents usually have no idea about how a troop runs and it's the SM's job to talk to them.

 

The Webelos themselves don't care how the troop runs, whether it's boy led or not, how fast they'll get to first class, etc. etc. They are looking and will likely join a troop whose boys make them feel welcomed when they visit, a troop that has some cool stuff coming up on the calendar, and with whom they have fun.

 

 

 

 

[Eagle92]

Neil,

No disrespect is intended as this request is complete curiosity on my part. Could you PM me the data? I ask b/c with my old troop would invite the Webelos to a meeting, and then a campout. We let the SPL and the rest of the PLC handle everything. They would meet with the SM, and then he would handle the parents. We got a few troops struggling with retention, and anything to make it easier for them.

[Buffalo Skipper]

Sorry to be late to chime in here, but our troop took a 3 day/night campout this past weekend (caving and 20 mile canoe trip--much fun!).

 

I posted a link recently on where to find some good questions about this exact topic. Look at http://usscouts.org/cubscouts/goodtroop.asp

This was part of a BSA document from several years ago.

 

From the other end, I make a few other recomendations, which may echo what others have offered. When we have a visitor (and parents), we give the boy to one of the patrols (especially if he has a friend in one), and we talk to the parents. We have a little tri-fold flyer we pass to the parents which covers some basic info about the troop, including a little of what is expected, including equipment and fees, but it is mainly an overview. Who pays for this, who organizes activities, what we like to do, with a few pictures to back it up. We go over this and make a mention to the parents that the scouts lead each other and run the meetings themselves (hopefully they are and we have not been interrupted). If there is interest, at the end of the meeting we offer a detailed handout (4 pages) which talks more about what is expected of parents and scouts, details of fees (dues, equipment fee, and campout costs), parents involvement with the committee. We don't often have vistors (outside of the Webelos season) but it seems to work well for us.

 

I am also a Webelos leader. I encourage all Webelos parents to visit at least 3 troops and if possible, try two outings with different troops. And I am a strong believer that the scout should choose which troop they will want to join. And have the Webelos-friends visit troops together, when possible. It helps. I have also I have run a Webelos recruiting program at district roundtable, from the perspective of Webelos/Pack leaders, SPLs, SM/ASMs and commissioners. I can't find the thread at the moment, but I will keep looking and post it for you.

 

Choosing a troop can be an exciting time. Good luck! Choosing