National BSA Guidance

[CA_Scouter]

My goodness, in this day and age you're gonna try to pull this off?

 

Ewwww.. I need to take a shower.

 

If I may cynically postulate... I think this is a bit of a smoke screen, some lady is upsetting the males in this troop and they want to make sure she doesn't end up as SM.

 

I don't think institutionalizing gender discrimination in your organization makes for a positive male role model.

 

$0.02

 

 

[Tokala]

Nowhere does it say that the Scoutmaster, and only the Scoutmaster, is a role model for the youth. EVERY adult involved in Scouting sets an example, good or bad, for the youth that they interact with in the program.

 

I know some outstanding female role models and some horrid male role models in Scouting. While the patch on our sleeve defines our responsibilities, we all are role models for the youth that we interact with in every level of Scouting.

[desertrat77]

Without our lady scouters, the BSA would be in deep trouble.

 

I second CA Scouter. I'm leary of any effort to overtly or covertly tilt a decision like this towards a particular gender.

 

True, the scouts need positive male role models. But with the turmoil that many of these young men face at home (divorce, ugly custody arrangments, deadbeat moms and dads), I think any motivated scouter--man or woman--is welcome.

[justmescout]

I was told when I crossover that my son's troop is an old school belive troop where they are very greatfull to the ladies who help with the Committee positions but at camping time is the good old boy's time and women are not so welcome, they stop short of saying that they were not aloud but a pain in the back to set up in a different camp, provide the privacy needed and keep away Mom from being Mom. So my wife is not welcome at the campouts because it will required a different camp for her or any other female. "This is not Cub scouts" is always a reminder to the single moms at the troop, so thanks for bringing little Johny, will call you on the way back from camp. What about the ladies who are not afraid of camping but rather enjoy it and know how it works?

[Nachamawat]

Tokala and desertrat have the right way of looking at this subject. While I understand the POV that Johnny may not be getting enough male role modeling at home anymore that does not mean that he can only get that from a male Scoutmaster. For quite along time now women have been pulling their own weight in life and in Scouting when others have left them down. I am not in favor of an all female troop BTW because that is not what life is all about either.

 

Kids need to understand that life skills require working with people of other genders, other races, creeds, religions, and nationalities. This does not magically occur when they turn 18 and are thrown out into the adult world. Why can't we help them along the way?

[RememberSchiff]

Justmescout, I think that troop policy is to prevent the male adult leaders from bringing their mothers or their mothers from bringing them.

 

My advice, think about your outdoors skills and interests and what benefit those could bring to the troop, if you want to be a helicopter parent on trips then end of story. Don't underestimate the value of your enthusiasm to a scouting program. Take some of the basic online training courses. Maybe you'll consider becoming an assistant scoutmaster, merit badge counselor, wilderness first aid expert, or trek coordinator for the troop - somebody that should/needs to go camping with troop. Then talk to the District scouters first and maybe together approach your troop's Charter Organization Rep. Work the problem from the outside and then top down as you will get nowhere in the existing 'This is the way we've always done it' Good Ole Boys Club.

 

Plan B, find another troop.

 

Last I checked there was no glass ceiling outdoors - ceiling unlimited, welcome to Scouting.

 

My $0.02,

 

[AwHeck]

..." a pain in the back to set up in a different camp, provide the privacy needed and keep away Mom from being Mom. So my wife is not welcome at the campouts because it will required a different camp for her or any other female."

 

... Set up a different camp??? When females camp with our troop, they just set up their tent with the other adult tents, no separation other than separate tents for male and female. I am female and I get all the privacy I need in my tent. At summer camp where there are shared latrines, I just try to limit my use to times when the boys are in their tents for the night or busy elsewhere.

[Eagledad]

>>I personally don't ever want to be SM, I do think it's important for these young men to have a good male role model... I hang around because I think it's also good for these young men to see that a woman can do all the same things they do

[Eamonn]

As so often happens (At least for me!. I find myself between a rock and a hard place.

I hope that we, HWMBO and myself have raised our son to respect everyone.

 

I also hope that I'm not guilty of being anything that might be taken as an "Ist". Not sexist, racist. OK! I might be happy to take or go along with nicest?

Over the past few years, I have slowly been learning a new way of talking.

Man of the young men I see that are serving sentences in jail, when they talk about their homes talk about "My babies Momma." Some talk about "My babies Mommas"

Of course the fact that these guys are in jail does mean that while they are there they are not actively involved in the raising of their kids.

The reasons why they are in jail? The social and economic reasons and maybe failing's that may or might be argued is maybe something for another thread?

Many of these men don't seem to have any real feelings of responsibility for the children that they have brought into the world. Many of these guys never had a father at home and see having children being raised by the women that they slept with or the mothers of women that they slept with as just being the norm.

Paying money out for child support is seen by them, much the same way as I might see me paying my income tax.

I do think that a good male role model is a good thing.

I also think that more than anything else children need to feel and see that they are really loved and cared about.

I don't believe that HWMBO is any more or less loving or caring than I am. For me this isn't a male or female role thing. Each of us have different skills, things that one of us does better than the other or can manage maybe better than the other.

 

Right now in the Council I serve, which is small with only about 100 Troops, we do not have any female SM's.

I'm not sure why this is and I know of no real reason for it.

Then again the Council has never had a female Council President, again I can't find a reason for this.

 

While I do strongly subscribe to the idea that the adults in Scouting should set the best example possible for the youth they serve. I have to say that I kinda think a Lad toddling off too a Troop meeting once a week with the odd camp out thrown in for good measure is not going to really see his male SM as a big male role model. Anymore than he would see a female SM as a big female role model.

I was very worried when I first became a Sea Scout Leader of a coed Ship.

Having teenage girls in a Scouting unit scared the bejebbers out of me. I had no experiences what so ever of working with girls.

It took no time for me to work out that it didn't make any difference.

Both the male and female Scouts took me for what I was/am.

I don't think it would have made an iota of difference had I been a female.

Eamonn.

 

[Scouting_in_the_Greatland]

This topic has seemed to generate a bit of controversy, so Id like to state for the record, that neither I nor anyone at our local unit, has anything against women being active and important members of the scouting team. There are actually more women than men currently serving as active adult leaders in our troop. They attend meetings, go on campouts, serve as merit badge councilors and committee members, etc. We could not survive without the time, energy, and effort all these women bring to bear. The positive role model these women set are definitely an essential component to an overall recipe for success.

 

So no, this is not a smoke screen for anything. It is just our opinion that with all the other female representation already available in the lives of our boys, there is nothing wrong with saying that wed like them to also have a positive male role model in the form of our Scoutmaster. In our unique circumstance, we feel this is best for our boys. Other units are free to feel differently.

 

So, I want to apologize to anyone who was offended by this thread, Im sure there are a lot of dynamite women SMs out there who could outlast me in the woods. The original posting was just meant to be a procedural question about the line of authority within the scouting hierarchy, it was never meant to be a value judgment between men vs. women.