Dismissal from troop?

[gwd-scouter]

I guess my question is:

 

Your son sustained an injury while on a campout with the troop and the troop was found negligent. Your post seems to state that you agree that the troop was negligent.

 

Why then would you even care if they want to dismiss your son? Why would you want him to stay in that troop if you believe they were negligent?(This message has been edited by gwd-scouter)

[krb09]

More information: The adults that were present at the time of the injury were addressed by council, and they admitted they were at fault and that their judgment was subpar that day. To my knowledge, there is nothing else pending and we have not/will not pressed/press the issue beyond the troop level. The troop has made several changes, pushed training and then retraining, and they have created safeguards and placed certain protocols in place in the wake of what happened. The changes seem viable and really are an all-around good solution. We know accidents happen. We are all willing to move forward and get past this bump in the road, but the environment, while not hostile, isn't receptive or welcoming either. I think my son has been to two meetings and to one patrol meeting since the injury at the camp out. He also opted out of summer camp this year. He says the other scouts ask him about the ordeal and it makes him uncomfortable since he was asked by the troop not to discuss it with the scouts or parents. Our younger son is excited about crossing over to this troop at the end of 5th grade this school year, so we are at a major crossroads.

 

By the way, a friend of my son, who is also in the troop, says he heard my son didn't really do anything wrong and that they just want him out of the troop because they are embarrassed or think something else bad might happen and then the troop will be "back under a microscope". Again, that's just information from a kid, but his dad is an ASM.

 

 

[Crossramwedge]

We have procedures to deal with problem "scouts". None of them include immediate dismissal. We first let the SM handle the problem scout by talking to him and try to lead him in the right direction. This may include some sort of suspension or dismissal from an over night camp out. The parents would be informed of the action taken and why it was taken. If problems persist his parents will need to come in and take part in a "problem solving" conference. At a minimum this meeting would include the Parents, the boy, SM and CC. It also might include the SPL if need be. If it is a problem with another boy, he may also be called in along with his parents. Then the last straw would include the COR and CC getting involved if the problems still persisted and depending on their meeting with the SM, Scout and Scout's parents, the COR and CC will decide the scouts fate.

 

Remember that we have kids diagnosed with all sorts of problems joining scouts. Not only the physically handicapped, but kids with ADD, ADHD, Turret's etc. The BSA looks upon these "scouts" as having a disability. Its possible that some kids problem could be attributed to the scout having an un-diagnosed "disability" that could be attributed to the majority of his misbehavior problems.

 

For instance years ago we had a young man in our troop that was a holy terror. He was unruly and had a very bad temper. His Mom and Dad tried everything. He joined the scouts and there where times when the Scout leaders in the troop just wanted to tear their hair out at some of the stuff he pulled. They literally had to assign an adult leader to watch and be around him at all times. As the years went by he matured. He settled in. Went on to earn his "Eagle" and is now married and expecting his first child. His parents attribute his maturing and growing up to his being in the scouts. They (and even he) have said that if it where not for the scouts they would not know where he would be today. So we need to understand who we are as Scout leaders and that it is about the boy's and only the boy's. We need to give the boy's as many chances as we can and dismissal from a troop must only be the last resort taken to solve the "Problem".

 

Yes, you can move on and join another troop. It is not any body's business but your own to move on. But it may behoove you to go ahead and go before the committee and see what they have to say. It may just be a big understanding. Now if your son is being accused of something by another scout that was not witnessed by an adult then I would inform the committee that it is only fair that all parties be at the meeting. This would include the SM, CC and any and all witnesses, the parents of the kids involved as well as the scouts involved. After the meeting if you feel that your son has been wronged then go and join another troop. I must warn you that SM's know each other so do not be surprised if you are grilled about the circumstances that led your son to leave his former troop.

 

In the same instance if you see that your son did something that was "wrong" please accept their finding. If possible try and work things out. If a "dismissal" decision stands then move on. I personally think that dismissing a boy from the troop with out giving him a chance for redemption is not the right course to be taken. It would have to be a very bad situation before we as a troop would dismiss a scout with out going the extra yard to see that the scout is given every opportunity to straighten up

[John-in-KC]

1) Insist the Institutional Head, the Chartered Organization Representative, and the Unit Commissioner (or the District Commissioner, if the UC be not available) be at this meeting. If they refuse, simply say "Please deliver me his records and any dues or fees not obligated. I am transferring him to another Troop in his best interests."

 

2) Go with your son. If it even looks like it's going to be a Spanish Inquisition, vice a friendly gathering of adults, say "I am now acting in the best interests of my son. Please surrender your unit records and and any funds we've paid in that are not disbursed. I will be transferring my son to another unit. Mr XXXXXxxxx, (whoever the IH is), this unit needs some adult supervision to implement its side of your Scouting license." Then say "Son, it's time for us to move along the trail."

 

3) On the other hand, Lord willing, things will be friendly and mature. In that case, be there as backup for your son.

 

4) Since the unit has not set this up as a Board of Review (albeit not for advancement), if they ask you to leave the room, say "Excuse me? You did not state you were convening a Board of Review. At this point, I believe the best interests of my child demand my presence. Now, why are you convening this session, please?"

 

I'm a great advocate of friendly cups of coffee, that mature adults can play nice and deal with matters. When I see a system trying to gang up on a kid, my PROTECT mode flips ON.

 

Let us know how this turns out.

[Beavah]

Yah, again we're off assumin' the troop leaders are a bunch of louts trying to be mean to kids. Shame on us. A Scout is Loyal.

 

Krb09, in answer to your question, like any voluntary youth program, a Boy Scout troop can remove a boy from their program at any time for any reason. It's their program, eh?

 

In any cases where it's a disciplinary/behavior matter that might affect another troop's program, I think we all would expect them to inform other troops in the area of the issue. That's just common courtesy and good youth protection.

 

And, yep, as a voluntary program, no troop is obligated to take a new member as a transfer or any other way. That's why it's a membership application. Remember, none of us are entitled to have other adults offer opportunities to our sons for free. When adult leaders in a troop aren't comfortable being responsible for a boy, it's both their right and their obligation to ask him to look for another youth program.

 

Yah, so that answers krb09's questions, eh?

 

Without any further information, it's hard to offer any advice. It may be that the troop leaders are uncomfortable with being responsible for the lad following the incident the previous month. That's their call and their right, but it usually comes into play only if there was some odd behavior on the part of the boy or the family (perhaps like throwin' around the term "negligent" in a legalistic way?). It may be that there's some behavior by your son that truly warrants dismissal straight-up. There are lots of things that fall in that category for troops.

 

I would call the Scoutmaster and politely ask for a briefing on what the behavioral issue was so that you can address it with your son.

 

Regardless of the reasons or that conversation, I reckon both of your sons need to look for a new troop. Most troops will consider what a prior troop says, but that won't be a determining factor in their welcoming a new boy if there's acknowledgment of the issue on the part of the boy/parents. And it sounds like at this point a new troop will be a better fit for both you and your sons.

 

Beavah

 

[John-in-KC]

B,

 

I offer two quotes to your from krb09:

 

Recently (last night), we were told that our son might be dismissed from the troop for misbehavior. This is the first we have heard of any type of misbehavior since our son joined the troop in March.

 

That's from his original post.

 

The adults that were present at the time of the injury were addressed by council, and they admitted they were at fault and that their judgment was subpar that day.

 

Loyalty (as well as friendliness) is a two-way street. If a Scoutmaster, or the Committee Chair has a gut-check issue with a youth member, then they need to be talking adult-adult with the parents. It's back-channel stuff. Even if there was a SM conference about the youths' conduct (doesn't look like it from the limited info we have), there should have been a follow-up with the parents. We're trying to raise up great young adults here; it's far harder when we aren't working from one plan.

 

Yes, krb probably should call the SM and CC and ask what is going on. If he gets anything less than a direct answer ... there's a program with weak communication skills in play. Right now, from my vantage point, this unit needs its franchise-owner and its BSA friend on site next week.

[prairie]

My head must be wired up wrong this week, from the information given I can imagine events along this line.

Scout after being told many times not to do dangerous activity still does same and hurts himself, parent threatens lawsuit, troop/district/council coughs up money to make proablem go away and many appoligies all around, parent wonders why scout is no longer welcome. Nondisclouser agrement makes for odd internet posting.

 

I truly hope I am wrong, wrong, wrong.

 

 

Stuff more or less off topic:

 

One upside of being a pesimest, frequently you are supprised when things go better than expected.

 

I saw this happen, boy spazzed out with hatchet and made small hole in his upper leg, bled normal amount, he wasn't even that bothered by it. When his dad told him his mother would hear about the accident THEN he got upset. Dad took son to hospital and returned in a few hours, only result was boy for now leaves sharp tools alone.

 

Talked to a guy this week, friend of his hired a kid to mow yard, next thing he knows OSHA shows up and demands payment of $15,000 for him hireing an underage worker (by one year) to run power equipment, said lawnmower. Turns out it was the kid that turned him in, thinking the $15,000 fine would be his reward.

 

Grandpa died and left teenage grandson his Dodge Viper, a week later he goes to do big smokey burnout at local carwash, maybe he didn't notice that washbay had a cement block wall at the other end insead of an open door, theres an opening now but that will be repaired soon.

[Eagle1982]

Yea, I agree with Beavah, prob ably time to look for another troop. However, I wouldn't worry too much about what they may say to other potential troops. I suspect if you find a good one, they will know about the type of leadership coming from your current troop.

[John-in-KC]

krb,

 

Can you give us an update, please?

[eisely]

As others have commented, there is much that we do not know from the outside. I will venture to say that any injury that rises to the attention of the council will likely be known in the larger scouting community as well, regardless of fault.

 

For all we know the boy was doing something reckless without proper training and supervision. The fault of the adult leaders in such a situation is the failure to provide training and supervision, even if a boy injures himself through some fairly obviously stupid action. Even so, doing something reckless or stupid when the scout has not been trained cannot fairly be considered to misbehavior.

 

I can see how the adult leadership of a troop may feel embarrased and even angry if they are criticized from above in any aspect of their program. The apparent fact that a whole lot of training is going on suggests that there were issues with the unit's program. That still does not mean that the adults should take out their frustration on the scout.

[evmori]

What the heck happened? Did this Troop burn down a camp?

[scoutldr]

"Talked to a guy this week, friend of his hired a kid to mow yard, next thing he knows OSHA shows up and demands payment of $15,000 for him hireing an underage worker (by one year) to run power equipment, said lawnmower. Turns out it was the kid that turned him in, thinking the $15,000 fine would be his reward."

 

Um...I used to work for OSHA as a compliance officer. The above statement is simply not true. First of all, OSHA law does not cover independent contractors, and secondly, it does not apply to employers with less than 10 employees. And a $15000 fine would be for a "Willful" violation with severe consequences, such as a fatality...very rare and hard to prove. OSHA officers do not "show up and demand payment"...they issue citations which can be contested and are usually negotiated down in court. SHeesh.

 

We now return to the topic at hand...

 

 

[prairie]

Okay, I see I got caught up the the spirit of the tale instead of keeping to the reported facts, no agents showed up, don't remember what fine was, employer did have more than ten employees and yard was on comercial property. The $15,000 was what the kid thought was comming his way.

Sorry bout that.

[John-in-KC]

krb,

 

Feedback is a gift. We're asking for it from you? What happened? What have you decided with your son or for your son? Were we able to help you?

[krb09]

I haven't updated because I have no update to give. Our phone calls and a few emails have not been returned. We have thought of just showing up to a meeting, but our apprehension about the unknown and the potential of possible humiliation has kept us from making the meetings. We have had no communication with the troop since the night we were told our son might be asked to leave the troop. We have been looking for another troop in our area, but since we are likely to get a job transfer to another state in a few months, we have not opted to go ahead with the transfer to a local troop since it seems kind of pointless. We are waiting to see what happens, if anything.

 

If we do nothing now, and just wait for the move to find another troop, does the current troop have to notify us if the do actually go ahead and dismiss our son? And, does that mean he is kicked out of the BSA too? A friend told us that getting kicked out of a troop for something fairly minor (like we assume has happened with our son) is separate from being kicked out of the BSA, which usually has to involve something major. Can anyone verify that?