The first and third Sunday...

[Lauwit]

I'm a newly minted SM for a troop that has historically met on the first and third Sunday of the month. They take most of June and July off of meeting completely. In the past if they happen to camp on a weekend that a meeting is scheduled the meeting gets cancelled. The troop has about 4-6 active scouts.

 

My question is can you actually have a successful program meeting so little? The troop does camp 10 months of the year. But, it takes about 2 years for a scout to reach 1st Class.

 

What do you all think? What should I do? Should I do anything to change this meeting schedule?

[belayer_StLouis]

4 to 6 scouts is the answer to your question - it doesn't work. Be ready to receive tons of advice but your question has been answered and you really are an adult patrol leader, 6 kids isn't a troop.

[scoutldr]

First of all, kudos for having a monthly "outing". A lot of troops don't do that well. But if they only meet twice a month, that only gives them (usually) one meeting to plan the next "outing". (The scouts plan, not the adults, right???)

 

The "goal" is to meet weekly with one outing a month...12 months a year. And there's nothing that says the meetings have to be indoors in a classroom setting. Be creative.

[ChaiAdventure]

this is where I am going to get attacked....

 

I think that you can run a very effective program with that number of boys....but you just have to ensure that your methods and expectations are not the same as a unit with multiple patrols.

 

The critical factor is that you maintain the Patrol Method since with one patrol, it is too easy to micro-manage. There will be District and Council activities that will afford you opportunities to "link-up" with other units and get the boys some varied exposure.

 

Ultimately, the goal would be to reenergize a solid meeting schedule and begin recruiting a second patrol. That will happen much easier when you get your one patrol moving along.

 

There are negatives to a unit that size, but I also see a lot of positives and potential....

[Lisabob]

Small troops have their advantages, but with only 4-6 boys you are going to be in perpetual danger of not being able to recharter (you need 5 I believe) if just one or two of them drops out, or ages out. So a somewhat larger troop would probably reduce your stress level a bit.

 

Things you mentioned that I don't necessarily have a problem with: camping 10 months a year and taking June/July off (do you go to summer camp?). Lots of troops take a month or two off and are still successful, although I'm certain some people will tell you that you shouldn't do it. Camping 10 months a year is pretty good too. What is your attendance rate like at those camp outs?

 

Are there other things going on that also might account for the small size of the troop? Is there a good reason why you only meet every other Sunday? Or is it just "we've always done it like this?"

 

I think if I were in your shoes, I might want to see the troop meeting at least one more time a month for starters. Maybe meet three Sundays and have the camp out on the 4th weekend. Or have a PLC meeting (heck, with 4-6 boys, the whole troop should be at that meeting) as your additional meeting.

 

Good luck to you, and I hope you'll keep us updated here. It is always interesting to learn about how other folks do things. I know there are several regular posters on this forum who have faced some similar challenges with very small troops, too.

 

[John-in-KC]

First, congratulations.

 

Second, in your case it's not a PLC. It's a Patrol Council. The PL chairs it. It's a meeting of the Patrol to do their planning.

 

I'd put the question of frequency and day of the week for meeting to them. Let them figure out if they want a change. The one thing I will tell you... with many, many Troops meeting on Mondays, any alternate day of the week provides an opportunity other units cannot/will not fill

 

BTW, before you do that: Check in with your Chartered Partner. There may be a historic reason, associated with them, which drives your schedule.

 

Sit down with the PL. The Patrol PORs in this case are Troop PORs for S-L-E. Small size does not mean diminished responsibility

 

Like Lisa said, growing a little bit (maybe closer to 10 than to 5) gives you some wiggle room at recharter. 10 is a little larger than the ideal Patrol, so you might shoot for 2 Patrols of 5, with an SPL and a Troop QM.

 

Above all, you and whoever ASM's with you ... enjoy the opportunity for 1/1 time with the youth. You really can focus on their growth and development, both in life and in Scouting skills

[Beavah]

Yah, I'm goin' back to da original question about meetings per month (rather than troop size).

 

Just depends, eh?

 

Do yeh have stuff that isn't getting done?

 

Are there meeting room or family conflicts on the other weekends? Would your youth/parents buy into more meetings?

 

Yeh talk about a "successful program" having more meetings, but I think what you need to start with is what do you see as being "successful?" You're gettin' out on a lot of campouts. Are the boys learning and growing? Don't use advancement as a measure of success either, eh? It's just a tool that we use to help boys learn other things.

 

Somethin' yeh might consider is to keep your current meeting schedule, but meet for longer. Instead of an hour, meet for two or three, but run your meetin' outdoors or with a lot of youth-directed activity. Think of it more like a sports practice than a parlor gathering. Closer to da spirit of scoutin' anyways!

 

Yah, sometimes da trend with weekly meetings is to make 'em into indoor, fill-the-time sorts of things.

 

All that having been said, there are reasons why most troops do weekly meetings and why they're generally recommended.

 

Yeh have to find what works for you and your kids and families. Have yeh asked the boys what they think?

 

Beavah

 

[gwd-scouter]

Lauwit, congrats on stepping up to SM. I read something you posted over a year ago about being ASM to the Troop (still 6 boys) and that your troop only attended summer camp and other district/council events. Nice to read that you've upped the campouts/outings to 10 a year - one every month except during the summer. Good for you and your boys.

 

Now, it's true that a Troop of six guys is very small. Small does have its advantages, though. And, yes, you can be boy-led even with only a few guys.

 

Our Troop has always been small, having at times as many as 16 scouts and recently as few as nine, but most times somewhere around 10-12. Several years ago, I set about changing the culture of our troop to boy-led, full uniform, outings every month, more adventurous outings, backpacking or at least trailer-less camping, PORs that mean something, advancement when a guy actually knows and does the requirements, etc. etc. You know, implementing the methods.

 

It took time but eventually the guys "got it" and started taking charge of their troop. ASMs and Committee (such as it was) got on board too, although it took a little longer with them.

 

Up until last spring, we had nine scouts. They were a wonderful group of guys that took charge of their troop, their outings, the planning, the meetings. For the most part they got along very well and helped each other. The best part for me was that with so few boys I really had a chance to talk with them individually, get to know them very well - what motivates them, what doesn't. We were a marvelous little troop and rarely did a scout miss a meeting or outing.

 

The guys did operate as one patrol, with a PL, APL and quartermaster (although the guys preferred the title of SPL and used that instead of PL). We also had a JASM who helped teach the PL how to do his job better.

 

Several advantages to a small troop/one patrol. Really easy to go anywhere to camp or backpack. Really easy to get them there. The boys themselves all learn a lot about planning and organization and teamwork because in a small troop they all are doing that - not just a few filling the PORs.

 

One thing I find odd in your post about advancement. You stated it takes your guys over two years to earn First Class. Is that because in the past you hadn't camped very often? Being a small troop ourselves our guys had many more opportunities for advancement.

 

Yep, our little troop of guys bonded very well. So well, in fact, that last spring when we found out we were getting Webelos crossovers from three different packs and growing from 9 to 24 scouts, our guys were worried. Some said, we like our troop. What will all those new guys do to it?

 

It's been a struggle for our guys to take in all these new scouts and for now at least things aren't running as smoothly as they used to. But, I do see improvement and imagine it will all settle down by the time we have new elections in September.

 

You mention you have a pack with Webelos that will cross over in the spring. Don't get complacent about it. Take them camping. Invite them to meetings. Get them involved now with your Troop.

 

Good luck.

 

 

[shortridge]

There's nothing wrong with taking two years to reach First Class - absolutely nothing at all. It's far better, IMHO, for a Scout to *master* the skills through plenty of practice than to rush through them. Speed of advancement is not a good judge of a good program.

 

That said, if you're camping 10 times a year, a Scout should have no problem with reaching First Class within a year's time.

[IM_Kathy]

my son's troop has "typical" troop meetings only every other week... on the "off weeks" we do still have the room in our chartered building and we use this time for getting together with merit badge counsilors.

 

it works great for this troop - it is largest (that I know of) in our district... we do meet durring the summer although attendence is lower then due to vacations and such.

 

there are great advantages to the "off week" set up... MBC don't have to wonder when/where to meet with the boys and when a few are going at once you don't have to worry about the whole two-deep rule if only 1 scout is wanting to earn a particular badge. When families are planning their vacations they know when troop meetings are and can schedule them around those weeks when they can.

 

most of our advancement work takes place on campouts - other than summer camp and camporees we almost always have our campouts on the 3rd weekend of the month - which also helps with parents scheduling events.

 

IMO it doesn't matter the number of boys as long as you have plenty of adults with the time and energy to make things the boys want to do happen... if you don't then you end up having to cancel campouts and such and that will hurt the program more than how often they meet.

[eisely]

I know of no mandated minimum number of meetings per month.

 

Most troops meet weekly which is fine if one has a program that makes every meeting interesting.

 

Our troop cut back some time ago to troop meetings three times a month, leaving the fourth week for patrol meetings. this seems to create a better balance between troop level programs and getting the patrols to do things themselves.

 

Of course this specific alternative does not apply to a troop with one patrol.

[asm 411]

There are several benefits I noticed when I was a den leader about having weekly meetings as opposed to any other schedule (first and third, second and fourth, every other..). The biggest benefit is that there is no question if there is a meeting this week. A close second is that meeting every week also keeps the Scouts thinking about Scouting.

 

Here is the hard part, you are changing the culture of the troop. In my opinion it is for the better but still it is a change. Change often meets with resistance and takes time. As with everything else the Scouts have to want to do it. My suggestion is that you present the benefits of meeting weekly to the Scouts and get their buy in first. Then make the change.

 

Don't fall into the trap of mandating attendance for rank advancement (not only is this not allowed but it is also counter productive) or anything else. Work with the Scouts to have a program that is interesting enough that Scouts want to be there. Yet another opinion of mine is that the only way it is possible to have program truly interesting to the Scouts is if the Scouts are the ones choosing the activities, campout destinations and what is going to done at the meetings and on the campouts. With your guidance of course.

 

Hint: What our troop does is every year before we do the yearly planning the Scouts fill out a survey that has all the topics from the Program Features listed. Each Scout picks his top 12. The program features that have the hightest interest is what the PLC uses to design the program for the year.

 

If you are interested I can put an example form out on the web for you to see, use, modify for your own purposes...

 

Lastly this change may require changing your weekly meeting night. I know my wife is pretty possesive of our family time on the weekends. Though I have also heard some troops have had great success meeting every Sunday. Typically there is no sports or school events going on and homework is easily finished before hand. Since you have a small group it should be easy to discuss it with Scout families once you have the Scouts on board.

 

Don't worry about the how long it takes for the Scouts to get to First Class. Think in terms of making sure there are opportunities for them to complete the requirements. It is up to them to take advantage of those opportunities and to set the pace.

 

[pargolf44067]

Lauwit,

 

I think it certainly helps to meet weekly, but if everything is getting done as it should then you are probably fine. I would agree with gwd about not taking crossing over Web IIs for granted. Get them on a campout and show them what you do at meetings and on campouts.

 

I know there are troops that don't meet at all in the summer. We take the month of August off for the scouts (and leaders) to recover. We have our annual planning meeting that month and we finish the month with the court of honor to kick off the new scout year.

 

ASM,

 

I would actually like to see your survey for the themes from the Program Features. As I mentioned I am getting ready to do our annual planning meeting next month and I think it would be great to have a survey like that to pick the themes for the year.

[asm 411]

pargolf44067 you can see the form I was mentioned previously at -

 

http://www.sharonscouts.org/workInProgress/scoutActivityChoicesForm.html

 

If anyone sees anything they think should be added to make the form more useful feel free to let me know. Thanks.