Scoutmaster Problem

[herbie1234]

This has probably been hashed over on this forum, but I'd like some fresh perspective.

 

We recently returned from summer camp, normally a bonding experience for our troop, and the Scoutmaster is making most of the kids and all of the other leaders miserable. He's taken on a tact that since he's the Scoutmaster, everyone has to do what he says and he's offended when there is disagreement from the other adults (he's retired military). For example, he was really riding the SPL about getting the campsite cleaned for the day, after he had previously stated that he was going to let the boys be responsible and if the site didn't pass the daily visitation from staff, so be it. I quietly asked him to let the boy boy do his job, and he got in my face about how he was in charge when he was in the site & I should stay out of it. Also, he lectured one of the boys for following direction from one of the other adult leaders that he didn't agree with. Lastly, every almost every meal the kids had to sit and listen to a 5 minute lecture on something that was bugging him. The kids are getting pretty tired of it.

 

Since camp, the Committee Chair has received calls from leaders & parents who are ready to pull their kids out. Including the SM, we only really have 4 really active leaders, of which 3 may be leaving. This is a small troop, so this would probably mean it will fold.

 

We have some ideas on how to deal with this, but would be very interested to hear other opinions and experiences.

[John-in-KC]

While I am an advocate that the SM is the Program Officer of the Troop, and the ASMs work for him, Quadrant 1 of the leadership development model (high direction, low support) isn't needed very long.

 

Ideally, in most mature Troops, the youth are in Quadrant 3 or 2 (low direction, high support, or high direction, high support, respectively), and the adults should be in Quadrant 4 (low direction, low support). Doesn't sound like the SM believes this is where the Troop is.

 

To me, it sounds like it's time for the CC to have a friendly cup of coffee with the Scoutmaster and do a "thorns and roses" about Scout Camp with him. THEN!!!, Mr SM and the PLC need to have a "thorns and roses" session. Feedback is a gift, and if Mr Scoutmaster doesn't get feedback, this Troop won't be around very long.

 

BTW, to me, the mentorship between SPL and SM on expectations should have happened well before camp. What you described might be effective at Basic Training (eh, Gunny?), but sounds like it didn't work here. In fact, it does not sound like mentoring at all.

[Beavah]

Yah, sometimes da ex-military folks have a hard time transitioning to the relative collaboration and chaos of runnin' a youth program like Scouting. Most often I've found 'em to be the ones who also weren't that well respected during their service, and perhaps didn't move up da chain as fast as some others.

 

Always best to think long and hard about a man or woman before you consider 'em for Scoutmaster.

 

John-in-KC's got it right, the CC and da ASMs have to sit with the man, either separately or together. If I might suggest, the feedback needs to be blunt. Guys like this are straightforward types, eh? They don't get subtle.

 

Then yeh see where it goes, eh? If the fellow acknowledges the problem, promises to do better, goes off to do Thorns & Roses with the youth and does a good job in front of them of listening to 'em and admitting spots where he erred, I think that's fine. Yeh just put in place mechanisms for tight observation and feedback for a while.

 

If the fellow doesn't acknowledge the problem, or his response is only half-hearted or he doesn't listen well to the ASMs or boys, then yeh might have to make a change. I wouldn't do it on the spot, I'd think about it some and leave a gap for emotions to die down, and I'd spend some time figurin' out how to present that to him and the parents and boys in a way that's not threatening. Changin' a SM mid-stride has all kinds of potential for destructive conflict, eh?

 

Do yeh have someone else who is ready to step up?

 

Beavah

 

[Hal_Crawford]

Is this a new SM or new behavior from an established SM?

[scoutldr]

Herbie, welcome. What is your position in the troop? Has the SM been to training?

[BadenP]

Hey Herbie

 

Maybe he is just the product of his WoodBadge training, as Kudu would say, lol. Honestly though if he really is a real PIA then get rid of him before you start losing boys, after all they are the reason for the program and not some adult scouters power trip.

[sandspur]

Herbie:

Where is the committee in all this? Do the CC and the COR agree there is a problem? If so, they can take the lead in talking to the SM in private. If that doesnt work, it can be addressed in the committee more openly. Last resort: the committee and the CO can replace the SM with another.

I have been in a troop where that happened. In our case, the SM simply couldnt make the transition from a cub/younger scout leader to earning the respect of the older scouts. But his heart was in the right place. Best advice is to have the replacement SM ready to go and try to put a good public face on things (the SM can resign for personal reasons).

 

[herbie1234]

Folks- thanks for the feedback. Here's response to some of the questions.

 

Yes- we have an experienced & trained ASM ready to step up.

 

The SM has been in the position for a little over a year and has been through training. He previously was on the Committee and did very little with the boys.

 

I am an ASM in the Troop.

 

The CC agrees that there is a problem, as her son and his best friend want out of the troop. Three other Committee Member's boys want out also. There's going to be a meeting with the District Commissioner tonight to get some advise. The COR has not been notified, but will be after this meeting.

[Hal_Crawford]

Sounds like you guys are on the right track. I think you will probably end up thanking this guy for his service and replacing him with someone more suitable.

 

Oh and BTW, welcome to the campfire. Let us know how things turn out. Best of luck.

 

Hal

[fleetfootedfox]

Yeah, I had a hard time with one of my Webelos this summer. At one point it was his turn to be waiter. It was the last day of camp. He and another boy (mine actually) were tired and got it into their heads that it was not fair because by their recollection (which was wrong) they had been waiter more than some other boys. My boy eventually did as he was asked after some bit of arguing, but this other boy (whose parents unfortunately provide little structure at home) just refused to comply. My assistant said something to him like, "if you don't want to be part of our group we could find another table for you." Unfortunately, I felt like this just made it worse, but just as the boy's behavior was affected by his being over tired, so probably was the woman who made this comment.

 

I had to take the boy aside and have a heart-to-heart. I did not lecture. I reassured him that I wasn't going to send him to a different table, that we were just all tired. I asked him if he felt like I had been unfair or if I had mistreated him. I asked him if he thought this was really worth fighting over, etc.

 

By the time we got done, he was ready to comply, but two of the other boys were doing the waitering without being asked to, which I hope in itself was a small lesson to him. My assistant apologized to the boy for her comment, and the rest of the day went pretty well.

 

However, I realized how tired everybody was and had to adjust the afternoon activities. We skipped out of our last swim session, did something a little more relaxing, skipped the closing ceremony (which I seemed to be the only one who wanted to attend), and left camp a little early.

 

Some people might think I was too soft, but I don't want to lose a scout over something so silly when the main reason behind his behavior was that he was just over tired.

 

Anyway, long story, but my main point is that by end of camp everybody, including the SM is tired and cranky and people act different under those stresses. So, take a deep breath, talk it over, and try not to blow things out of proportion.

[John-in-KC]

Sandspur:

 

Not quite. The COR is the one who replaces a SM or the CC. All leader actions should wash through the COR, but the adult side of Scouting is not a democracy. the Chartered Partner is the licensee of record of a unit.

 

Replacing a principal Program Officer, as Beavah says, can help ... and can seriously injure ... a Troop. It's a COR decision.

 

If a unit has a weak relationship with the Chartered Partner, well... here's why it needs rebuilding.

[witai]

The COR should be a part of the meeting, not informed afterwards. As said, the COR is the top of the list. Include them in every part, not as an after thought. If they can not be at the meeting, they should at least be aware of the problem and perhaps leave some advice.

[Eamonn]

Becoming a Scoutmaster is a role that takes a while to get used too and grow into.

Summer Camp?

Most of us think of the warm summer days.

I have at times gone on about summer being the best time to be a boy.

But for some leaders Summer Camp is hard work!

Not sleeping well?

Not eating what and when you normally?

Kids and more kids and no place to get away from them!!!

Stress.

 

I think I'd want to find the right time and the right place to take this SM away for an adult beverage.

Sit down and talk things over.

What worked? What didn't?

Why it worked and why it didn't?

I would not expect that after the meeting that we both would come out singing songs that Mr. Rodgers would have written!

But I'd hope that we both would come away with a better understanding of each other and maybe ways that I could help him do a better job.

 

It does sound from what you have posted, that some considerably damage was done at summer camp.

Trying to undo what has been done? Most times is very hard and often just doesn't work.

You along with the other ASM's need to take a long hard look at what your roles are?

Maybe write down a list of what your options are?

Eamonn.

[sandspur]

John:

Yes, officially its a CO decision on the SM. However, in many troops (and ALL I have been part of) the CO and COR actually play a minor role and the committee runs things with the SM.

I suppose there are some Charter Organizations where the CO takes a strong hand in the troop. I have just never been part of one. In my current troop (a very large and active troop chartered by a church), the pastors sole connection with the troop is to sign the re-charter document once a year. The COR representative occasionally gives us feedback from the church property committee on our shared facilities. I am sure our CO would take a very hands off attitude to troop leadership concerns.

We each speak from our own experience I suppose.

 

[herbie1234]

Our Commissioner & COR have been apprised of our problem. They both agree that a change is in order.

 

Can the COR make this change without a committee action? It seems to be he can, although he has always worked through our committee in the past. He has been an active part of our troop for years, including a stint as SM many years ago. He definitely has the pulse of the troop.

 

I realize the normal procedure on SM selection is to wotk through the committee, but with the summer break it's going to be very difficualt to get them together and this needs to be resolved quickly.