Religious services on overnight trips

[True Believer]

My troop committee has a long standing rule, that if the troop does not make it back from an overnight trip on Sunday, before 10:30 am, the Scoutmaster must take the Scouts to a church on the way home.

As Scoutmaster, I have carried out this prudent rule, because, if we did not get back on time, it is unlikely that those who regularly attended church would be able to get the services/mass on time.

 

This year, I have been getting a lot of resistance, not only from the Scouts, but adults on the trip.

 

Half of my troop are Roman Catholics. The other half is composed of various Protestant denominations.

The understanding is that our Troop Chaplain's Aide will obtain a Catholic Church and a Presbyterian Church (our chartering organization) in the area, for us to attend. However, we frequently have two deep youth protection issues, in that the leaders tend to be Catholics. So, as per the understanding, we all go to a Catholic Church. For years this has been ok. Now, I am getting a little resistance from non-Catholic parents. Add to this the rules about who can and cannot receive communion, and instead of bringing us together, it makes obvious what separates us.

 

I have therefore asked the Troop Committee to review this situation, and its policy at the next meeting. I have asked it to publicize its policy beyond the troop new parent handout, so that all are informed of it, and know that it's just not me who is insisting on going to church (yes, that's an issue too) and a Roman Catholic one at that (yes, I am a Catholic).

 

This is a long way of asking, is anyone aware of guidelines from National BSA on this topic?

Thank you.

[Eagle92]

How about a non-denominational church service for the troop? In my experiecne that happens at summer camp, including when the camp chaplain is a Catholic priest, and happens at my OA lodge events. I might add that back in the day, one of IH/CORs of a neighoring troop would try to go camping with the troop as much as possible. Although a priest, b/c of the number of non-Catholics in the troop, he always did a non-denominational service. In fact the only time the troop was "required" to attend a service, was the Scout Sunday mass that the church put on. And I do use the 'required" term loosely.

[True Believer]

Unfortunately, given our wide range of localities on monthly camp outs, such a person is not available. And then, there is the issue of....Mass attendance for Catholics. Catholics have been taught that if they miss Sunday Mass, it is a mortal sin (a very serious matter). Now, remember that I am a practicing Catholic. I have been advised by clerics that this is not a requirement...missing one mass is not an issue. Nevertheless, as in most matters, what may be so doesn't matter if the belief of a majority is different. And, by far, most believe that the Sunday Mass is a requirement.

 

Thus, a Non-denominational service is ok, but it does not fulfill the Mass obligation.

 

If I can expand on your point though, perhaps I can get a deacon in to express church doctrine and that will calm everyone down. I see what you are saying.

[nolesrule]

The bottom line is that your troop is chartered to a Presbyterian church. If a parent doesn't want their scout attending a Catholic mass, you need to accomodate this, even if it means twiddling their thumbs in the parking lot for 2 hours under YPT guidelines. Just because the troop is half-Catholic doesn't make it a Catholic troop.

 

The goal of having a religious service every Sunday is a good one in theory, but you need to meet the needs of your troop in accordance with the beliefs of your chartered organization, not your own personal beliefs. Otherwise, you are not running the program on the COs behalf.

 

You can make compromises or switch to a troop chartered to a Catholic organization.

 

Yes, it's a sticky issue. I personally will not enter a church sanctuary other than to attend a wedding or funeral (out of respect for those getting married or who have passed away) or for an activity that is not religious in nature such as our annual Council Program Preview. Ialso don't do the non-denominational services because they are too church-like. I bring a siddur and quietly have a service of on my own on camping trips. Nothing like being out in nature to reconnect with God anyway.(This message has been edited by nolesrule)

[John-in-KC]

Another option is to ask for sufficient two-deep leadership from the Catholic parents to cover their very reasonable request that their kids attend Mass.

 

Within the context of the program, one of our duties as Scouters is to support the family in its choice of faith. It's a DRP thing.

 

I'm actually very happy for your Troop, this is a wonderful problem to have

[OldGreyEagle]

In my experience, just mine mind you, Catholic mass usually takes an hour, a 2 hour mass should very very unusual, like maybe you stumbled a First Communion Mass or something like that

[Hal_Crawford]

Our troop is chartered by a Baptist church but has no Baptist members as the congregation has very few if any young people. This may change as they have a new pastor who is working to attract young families to

 

Our SM (an Episcopalian) believes that as a "Scout is reverent" that we should have some form of non-denominational service on camp outs. Among our scouts there are (to name a few) Catholics, Episcopaleans, Lutherans, Unitarians and some of our most active members are Jewish. We have at times had Greek Orthodox and Muslim as well. There isn't a lot of commonality among these scouts. Our service is heavy on the scout law with an Irish Blessing (May the road rise up to meet you...) and a chorus of American the Beautiful. An alternate service that we have used on back country outings draws on Native American culture.

 

Lately I have become concerned that the non-denominational services lean towards casting the Boy Scouts as its own sect with a deity (The Great Master of All Scouts), a creed (The Scout Oath and Law) and with some Native American overtones. Like True Believer I am not sure which way we should go with this.

 

Unlike his situation, our Troop Committee is not the driving force and I suspect if they took a vote on it they might want to move away from religious observations altogether. I am sure the non-Catholic parents would go ballistic if we took them all to Mass just as the Catholics would be upset if we went to a Protestant church or Jewish Temple and the Jewish parents would be upset if we took their sons to any Christian church. I would hate to see a holy war break out in the troop.

 

Have Catholic Churches done away with the 5 o'clock Mass?

 

Good luck,

Hal

 

[Eagle92]

True,

I hear ya on that. I was fortunate in that my priest said as long as we attended something, anything, at summercamp or very late return home, we were OK. Plus where I came from, you could get home at 2PM, take a shower and a nap for 2-2.5 hours and still have your choice of mass schedules: 5PM, 5:30PM, 6PM, 6:30PM, or 7PM, all within 5 miles of the house.

 

maybe a talk to the local parish priest may help?

 

[nolesrule]

Okay then. One hour.

 

But hey, my religious services on saturdays when held in a group format are usually about 2.5 hours, so 1 or 2 hours is still shorter to me.

 

Though I can do it in about 30 minutes solo.(This message has been edited by nolesrule)

[Eagle92]

Hal,

I know the archbishop in my old archdiocese said no more evening masses. Don't know why he did that, but that became policy. Also I know that in my last diocese, there were no eveningn masses, other than in Spanish, and that is how it is in my current diocese. Then again Catholics are a minority in my neck of the woods; my parish church is so small, the small chapel at my Catholic HS is as big as the entire church, and the main chapel at the HS is 3 times the size of the church and parish offices combined!

 

[Beavah]

Yah, no guidelines from da BSA other than you should not force boys to attend services outside their own denomination as a condition of participation.

 

So if I'm gettin' this right, your troop does the right thing by trying to accommodate both its Catholic and Protestant members' needs. Because there is a lot of Catholic adult participation that is not a problem. But because you can often only get one Protestant adult to come out, sometimes you have to take everyone to Catholic services for two-deep reasons?

 

Seems simple to me, eh? If Protestant parents don't want their kids to go with da troop to Catholic services, they should get off their duffs and volunteer to help with outings so that all the kids' needs can be met. If they don't, then they've got no business complainin'. Da Catholic scouters are already bearin' more than their share of the load to make the troop run, eh?

 

Beavah

 

[Troop185]

I look at it as a opportunity, as part of the trip experiences, rather than a burden. We have a similar troop, except we are co-sponsor by a Catholic Church. About half of our scouts our Catholic. Everyone know we are going to Mass if the trip is on a weekend. At communion, the non Catholics can stay in the pew, or go up with cross arms for a blessing.

 

Last week, I had a group of 1st year Boy Scouts up to my cabin for two nights, and one night backpacking out to the sand dunes next to Lake Michigan. We schedule the trip to go home Saturday night, with a stop to attend Mass with Fr. Joe. We did not have to stop, but I wanted to, and put it on the schedule. (I only get to see Fr. Joe once or twice a year.) I can not tell you how welcome everyone was to us. Everyone is always glad to see the Boy Scouts, and Fr. Joe is very special. It was one of the highlight of the trip for the scouts.

 

I am planning a wilderness trip in August to Northern Ontario for a week. Saturday night we are going to drive 50 miles south of Wawa, Ontario to make camp. We are going to canoe to island, set up camp, and then canoe back to the van and drive back to Wawa for 7:00 p.m. Mass. Years ago, we would have driven to Indian River, Michigan Sunday morning on the way home(largest crucifix in the world and outdoor Mass), but not knowing how long the border crossing is going to take, we will attend Mass in Wawa Saturday night - and everyone will be happy to see the scouts in uniforms. And it will be part of the experience for the scouts - part English, part French.

 

One year we went to a Mass at a church share with a Protestant denominations. The Catholic have Mass on Saturday, the Protestant have their service on Sunday. The scouts went into the church and came back out quickly. "There is a dead women in there!" It seem that there were no funeral homes in the small town, and when someone died, they laid them out in the church. Mass was cancel that weekend, but what stories the scouts had to tell when they got home.

 

In True Believer troop, I would not find any objections in dropping scouts off at a Presbyterian Church, with no adults. I would think I could trust them to represent our troop.

[eisely]

An interesting problem to have. Most troops in our area, while chartered to churches, are highly diverse in their membership. I feel lucky if people just say grace at meal times.

[Pack212Scouter]

I'm kinda curious why you don't have a Troop Chaplain? Both our Pack and Troop usually hold their own service in the woods prior to heading out when they are out on a Sunday. Lay people have been conducting services since the time of Christ and before, when regular worship was not available.

[Lisabob]

OK this might not be ground you want to tread on, but I have to ask. Aren't there some pretty big differences between Protestant denominations? Aren't you going to have just as many problems if you say "all Catholics go to St. __'s and all Protestants go to the Presbyterian Church" ?? Even supposing they have services nearby and at the same time (logistical issues), what are you going to do with the various "flavors" of Protestantism? What if a non-Christian boy (with a religious bent) joins your troop? Will you be making another stop at the Temple, Mosque, etc., too? Heck, you could spend the entire weekend fulfilling various troop members' religious obligations.

 

I kinda think you're opening a can of worms here.

 

Perhaps the better policy would be that if the troop cannot be home in time for individual families to make it to their individually-preferred services, then the parents can come pick up their darlings from where ever you are camping, a little bit early.