Alleged hazing incident at summer camp

[eisely]

This incident apparently took place in Florida. One surmises that there is substance to the story. Deputies usually don't arrest people and lay charges without good cause.

 

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One adult and three teens have been charged with kidnapping a 12-year-old boy who was forced to drink urine at a Putnam County Boy Scout camp, deputies said.

 

The arrests occurred Friday in Hawthorne. Deputies said the suspects held the victim against his will at the camp on Baden Powell Road. During the kidnapping, the boy was forced to drink human urine, deputies said.

 

Deputies said the suspects were attending the camp from Ocala and were retailing against the boy for things he said earlier in the week.. No details were provided about the victim.

 

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Apparently the reporter does not know the difference between retailing and retaliating. Spell check will always helpfully you spell the wrong word correctly.

 

Anyone know anything about this?

[Beavah]

http://www.myfoxorlando.com/dpp/news/local/061509camper_kidnapped

 

Yah, hmmmm.

 

What a nightmare.

 

Recorded on cell phone video no less.

 

B

 

[Tokala]

I know the camp director, but have not spoken with him. Kidnapping charges aren't filed for headlines. All 4 accused have had their BSA membership revoked.

http://www.gainesville.com/article/20090615/ARTICLES/906159946/-1/NEWS03?Title=Forced-drinking-of-urine-at-Boy-Scout-camp-blamed-on-racial-slur

[emb021]

FWIW the camp in question is the Baden-Powell Scout Reservation, aka Camp Shands, which is North Florida Council's main council camp, and where they run their summer camp.

 

 

[Eagle92]

I am stunned.

[GernBlansten]

That's not hazing, its criminal assault.

 

I noticed one was an Eagle scout. I know their membership has been revoked (justfied), curious if this will settle the myth that Eagle scout rank can be revoked too.

 

Also curious on the races of all involved. The picture of the adult perp reveals his ethnicity. But they were retaliating on a racial slur by the victim. Was the victim a minority?

[John-in-KC]

I find it unique that the young men are named. That's unusual from my little experience with juvenile justice. Have to wonder what that means about how they've been charged?

 

Too bad "America's Dumbest Criminals" isn't on the air anymore. This incident would make it.

 

What I really hope is that the victim gets plenty of support from his unit leadership and his District in the coming months. Taking what he said as fully true, we (as in the community of Scouting) owes him some help in getting over this. It's our moral duty.

[xlpanel]

I don't like what they did, but the reaction is heavy handed.

 

First, Why was Joesph Reid arrested? The article states that Reid told the 12 year old to "walk back to his campsite". Then on the way back to the campsite "Four OTHER scouts jumped him". Then it Lists Joseph Reid and 3 Others as being arrested.

 

If four OTHER scouts jumped him, why was Joesph arrested? All he did was ask the scout to walk back to his campsite. As they only arrested four, they did not get one of the people that jumped him.

 

Seriously though, I hope that the 15 and 16 year old scouts can get it stricken from public record. One prank gone wrong, and it ruins the rest of their lives. While they do need some punishment --- that is not correct. Joesph -- I hope you get off, as all you did was ask the scout to go back to camp. And I hope they get the fourth member of the jumping party. But please, do not mess up the rest of their lives just off of one prank gone wrong.

[nolesrule]

"First, Why was Joesph Reid arrested? The article states that Reid told the 12 year old to "walk back to his campsite". Then on the way back to the campsite "Four OTHER scouts jumped him". Then it Lists Joseph Reid and 3 Others as being arrested. "

 

It's possible the newspaper story got the detail wrong about four others. Maybe it was actually Reid and 3 others. The same article you quote says it was Reid who actually forced him to drink the urine.

 

"The 12-year-old said the scouts then took him off into the woods and told them they were going to teach him a lesson for making derogatory remarks toward another scout. The boy told police that the four told him he could either get beaten up, or drink human urine. He said before he could answer, Reid ripped the duct tape off his mouth and forced him to drink a bottle of urine."

 

As for telling him to go back to his campsite, assuming there was no other involvement (which would be ignoring everything the article says about Reid), he could still be complicit if he was the setup man. Ever heard of the word accomplice?

 

One prank gone wrong? This goes way beyond pranks.(This message has been edited by nolesrule)

[Basementdweller]

Ah shucks, boys will be boys, let it slide. You have got to be kidding me.

 

Duct tape over the mouth and binding him. Then making him drink urine. Sorry, that crosses the line by a mile.

 

Please read both accounts...... One is confusing the other clears it up.

 

Not even close to hazing.

 

As a young man it never even dawned on me to do something like that.

 

What about the 21 year old? I have always believed that adult leaders need to be over 25 years old. This give them some separation from themselves and those they lead and train.

 

 

Can anyone find out if they actually revoked his eagle or merely kicked him out?????

 

I smell civil suit ding ding ding ding ding.

[xlpanel]

I assume the Reid that forced him to drink the urine was 16 year old Harrison Reid. Not 21 Year old Joseph Reid.

 

And telling a kid to go back to camp really isn't an accomplice act. I assume that Joesph was a leader for that troop, and to tell a kid from his troop to go to camp is standard and happens all the time. It could have gone down like this:

 

Poor Kid: Mr. J Reid, I am scared four guys are gonna jump me cause I said something to them. They are hiding in the woods for me somewhere.

J Reid: Go back to camp and don't leave. Their are other leaders there that will keep them from getting you as long as you are there.

Poor Kid: Thanks, I am going back to camp now to the protection of the other leaders

 

Sadly, on the way back to camp they jump him, before he gets to the 'safe haven' that J Reid was suggesting he go to.

 

Now, if we look at the Gainesville article, they state that kid was ""lured" away by four other campers to an isolated area". I am sure that if J Reid was involved, he would not have told the kid to go back to camp. It was H Reid that forced him.

 

 

 

The gainesville article defends J Reid even more. The boy was accused of using a racial slur, and J Reid probably was pissed at him, and told him to leave swimming and go to back to his campsite. Then, as he was walking back "four others ran out of the woods" and jumped him. Again, from gainesville. Both articles so far defend J Reid and indite H Reid.

 

I hate the part about drinking urine, and know that it is serious business. I don't want them to get off totally. I am perfectly fine with 2 months of juvie or so (get em in and out quick so it doesnt mess up their school). I just don't want them to be ruined for life for something they did when they were 15.

[nolesrule]

Innocent until proven guilty, but I'm responding based on the content of the articles.

 

 

 

"I assume the Reid that forced him to drink the urine was 16 year old Harrison Reid. Not 21 Year old Joseph Reid."

 

Nope. The article doesn't mention the names of anyone other than Joseph Reid until the last sentence in the article.

 

I don't mean to sound insulting, but you seem to be having some reading comprehension issues, or are deliberately reading things out of context and jumping to conclusions.

 

The Fox article says J Reid sent him back to camp. The Gainseville.com article named all 4 of those that assaulted him, and J Reid was one of those named. There is no way you can infer from the articles that J Reid was not involved beyond sending him back to camp.

 

And having read things again, I think I figured out what they menat by four other scouts. The newspaper articles don't seem to differentiate between Joseph Reid at age 21 being a scouter rather than a scout. So what the article means is the boy who was assaulted was a scout, and thefour others who assaulted him were also scouts.

 

"The gainesville article defends J Reid even more. The boy was accused of using a racial slur, and J Reid probably was pissed at him, and told him to leave swimming and go to back to his campsite. Then, as he was walking back "four others ran out of the woods" and jumped him. Again, from gainesville. Both articles so far defend J Reid and indite H Reid. "

 

Learn to read. None of the articles say any such thing. In fact, the Gainseville article says that the alleged slur had occurred earlier in the week, not immediately before he was sent back to his campsite. In addition, neither J Reid nor the other 3 were part of his troop. This whole incident appears to have been planned in advance.

 

From the gainseville.com article...

 

"Investigators arrested Joseph Wendell Reid, 21, two 16-year-olds, and a 15-year-old, all from Ocala, last week on a charge of kidnapping.

 

Officers allege the four held a 12-year-old boy against his will, first taping his mouth shut and then forcing him to drink urine, according to the Sheriff's Office."

 

I can't believe you are defending an ADULT who is this deeply involved (assuming the articles based on the local sheriff's office are correct). I can't also believe how you are completely mis-reading these articles.(This message has been edited by nolesrule)

[BDPT00]

I'm still annoyed by the last string of hazing comments (about a month ago), so let's just suppose...

If this same incident had happened to one of the jumpers last year for the same reason, and the "urine" was actually just heated apple juice, would some people think this was OK or maybe even funny? Boys will be boys, you know, and if it's a troop tradition ...

BDPT00

[evmori]

I agree with Gern. This is not hazing, it is a felony!

 

xlpanel,

 

You really don't have a clue, do you! A prank gone wrong! What these people did was kidnap & assault another human! That's not a prank! These are serious crimes!

[Beavah]

Yah, apparently from da articles the boys and the one ASM were all from the same troop. They claim to be retaliating for a racial slur made to a black boy in their troop by someone in the victim's troop (but perhaps not this particular boy). Doesn't matter, eh? A slur by a 12-year-old days before does not come near justifying a premeditated assault by an adult and group of older teens. No one in their right mind would give that excuse a moment's credence.

 

From the context, the 21-year-old was the ringleader, eh? No 15 or 16 year old is goin' to do that with a 21 year old around unless the 21-year-old approves and encourages. And the 21-year-old was apparently the one who made him drink the urine. Yeh have to just stand in horror at what that troop's culture must be like. I hope the council is lookin' at that, eh? This might be one of those rare times where a CO has to clean house or lose its charter.

 

While da kidnapping charge is just the DA's opening card, it's unlikely this man gets off without pleading to a felony. Not with da assault on video. If he has any assets, the civil case is of course a slam-dunk. As for the juveniles, how their criminal cases proceed will depend on the DA and how much of this was the adult's idea. It's worth notin' that Florida has no limits on recovery under its parental responsibility law, so yeh can bet that the parents of the three juveniles are facin' potentially life-altering civil cases.

 

That's not a prank, eh?

 

Kudos to the boy's troop leaders and the camp staff for doin' the right thing. I'm not sure I'd have been able to. A detailed, face-first, latrine-by-latrine "inspection" of da entire camp with that 21-year-old's head before handin' him over to da sheriff seems about right.

 

Beavah(This message has been edited by Beavah)