Essential Troop Equipment

[scoutingagain]

"Most of your camping will be weekend 'base' camping, where you go out somewhere and not move your base around.

 

You might go backpacking once a year, which means a new base every day. It is better to prepare for the camping you are doing 88% of the time, than to prepare for the camping you do 12% of the time. "

 

Sorry I have to disagree. Most of your camping will be what you and the boys decide it to be. Don't feel constrained by what many, if not, most of the troops do. If you have ambitions of becoming a true outdoor adventure organization, follow the advice and get the light weight backpacking equipment. If your desires are more along becoming a big troop with your own bus, trailer etc. and taking over a group car camping site like the 3rd Army...go for the big patrol boxes, two burner stoves, big cook kits, propane lanterns, dutch ovens, plywood tables, etc. But the important part is you and the boys get to decide the outdoor experience you want. Both can be part of good troop program, but as noted, you can use the light weight stuff while car camping, you can't use the big stuff too far from the vehicles.

 

My other advice would be rather than to submit a grant application, ask the grant organzation what they need done, and have the boys "earn" their gear.

 

Good luck.

 

SA

 

[shortridge]

As scoutingagain says, rather than going with others' lists, talk to the boys. Figure out what they want to be doing in 2-3-4-5 years. Then start working on getting the "stuff" they'll need to get there.

 

Often lost in the flurry of excitement over gear catalogues and Backpacker magazine's regular reviews (I've heard it called "gear porn" - and yes, I have often been guilty of the sin myself!) is the fact that a troop or patrol can go camping without any special gear whatsoever.

 

Start by thinking simple. Make bedrolls from blankets at home, use daypacks or homemade frame packs using the diamond hitch, tents and tarps from black plastic from your local hardware store (or else sleep under the stars - free!), some rope or cord (also from your local hardware store), a few pots, pans and plastic eating items borrowed from home, homemade alcohol stoves or campfires in existing fire rings, and some food. Boom. You're golden, and the boys are in the outdoors having fun with a minimum of effort and expense.

 

Both of the troops I was in as a youth were patrol-box units. We never did anything except day hiking from our main "base" - and boy, it got boring in a really short time. The only people I recall owning "real" backpacks were the adult leaders - who never really used them. They're a great way to get younger Scouts acclimated to the outdoors (or the parents who are reluctant to let them go!). But they're also a great way to keep the Scouts tethered, as Kudu says.(This message has been edited by shortridge)

[CA_Scouter]

STRIVE to own as little gear as humanly possible! More gear means more crap to sift through, more paperwork to hassle with, more adult interference, etc.

 

Lightweight, lightweight, lightweight. Support BSA in the Leave No Trace policy. You leave a large trace if the weight of your gear leaves dents in the earth!

 

Purchase good quality lightweight gear from REI, Campmor, etc. REI has these 4 qt lightweight pots that we use..we try for one pot meals.. we usually have 2 stoves/pots per patrol. We don't cook breakfast on the trail, only boil water in the morning. These guys can suffer thru a day or two without bacon, eggs and warm toast.

 

Anyone can 'seige camp' as I call it. Even if you go car camping, the lightweight gear means less time for packing are more time for fun!

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Beavah]

Yah, da most important thing is to set aside money for youth and adult leader trainin'. BSA stuff, for sure. Also look at Leave No Trace Trainer, ACA Canoe training, Wilderness First Aid, a backpackin' course from your local REI or college, a PTC course... whatever yeh have in your area or can get to. The more the adults know/learn, the more comfortable they'll be with kids in the woods and the more diverse your program will be.

 

After that, I think if you're comfortable with it you should strongly consider goin' the lightweight route that CA_Scouter and others suggest, eh? I can outfit an entire new troop for what some troops pay for their trailer in fixed and variable costs. And da new troop will be backpackin' and paddlin' and sailin' and climbin', not tied to cub scout trailer camping.

 

But yeh have to be comfortable with that, or willing to be the old dog who learns new tricks, eh? While the kids adapt just fine, lots of adults scream bloody murder if they're separated from their 200 lb 5-room tents and 10-inch air mattresses. Yeh have to have some adventurous adults who are fit enough to sleep on the ground, eh? Not every unit does. If you do, it can work great, and it can help keep da hovercraft parents away .

 

Beavah

 

[ozemu]

Gear needed depends on activity, experience, age but also on environment. I'll bet you would mostly recommend a different tent down in the SE than you would in the NW.

 

dewSM's question is what to buy first. Probably standing camp gear (don't get trapped by it program wise). Big heavy boxes - no, try smaller solid plastic ones. That way the Patrol can pick them up and move them around. And you can separate Patrols more easily. I don't know how you describe size - 50 litre? small enough that the smallest Scout if gaffer taped into a rectangle could barely squeeze into it? You get the drift - a two Scout lift at heaviest.

 

For myself we opted for two sets of gear per Patrol. One lightweight and one heavy weight. Summer was for water based camps and standing camps. Winter for hiking and standing camps. We did about 60% standing camps mostly themed (JOTA etc) and some them with other Troops. Every year we seemed to do at least one camp with no gear. Slept in the grandstand at the sports field on a charity 24hr walk, survival shelters, cardboard boxes (homeless experience).

 

Only Troop item we had other than flags was a big old canvass circus style tent - we call it a marquee, that we never put up because we got it in a drought and it only had half the poles. Didn't need it and couldn't put it up. If it were conditions like now though....I'd buy poles.

[kenk]

Wow, the folks in this forum are REALLY big into lightweight camping! It makes this old ASM feel kind of wimpy for bringing a Thermarest pad to sleep on. I certainly am embarrassed to mention that I sleep on a cot at summer camp.

 

When lightweight gear troops camp, what cookware do you use? What kind of pots/pans do you use?

 

Do you bring along any foods that need to be kept cold (milk, eggs, cheese, meats)?

 

Do lightweight troops still use the 3-bucket washing/sanitizing method?

 

Do the lightweight troops use gas lanterns? Probably not.

 

Do you bring along an axe? I suspect you need to in order for boys complete Second Class requirement 2c & 2d?

 

Do you build campfires? If there is such a concern about the scars left by a patrol box, I would suspect campfires would be completely out of the question. Then again, how do the boys complete Second Class requirement 2f & 2g?

 

Do lightweight troops ever use dutch ovens? I would suspect not. That's kind of a shame. Our boys really enjoy using dutch ovens.

 

[John-in-KC]

Ken,

 

To answer your questions on foods: If you google, you can find dehydrated meats. There are cheeses (Romano, Parmesan) which can live at room temp until used. Dehydrated milk was around 40+years ago.

 

Truth be told, going with a somewhat vegetarian menu (more beans, less meat) on the trail will give you all but two of the essential amino acids of protein as I recall. It also helps keep you regular.

 

 

[SctDad]

You have recieved a lot of suggestions here, mostly about buying lightweight equipment. I do not see why everyone os so against trailer camping. It can be beneficial and just as fun. Now I have no problem with lightweight camping and hiking to campsites, but that is not the only camping.

 

DewASM

 

Find out what your boys want to do. They may want to start with camping where they have options of getting the extra gear out of the trailer. Maybe the older ones want to go through doe the light weight camping and go out further.

 

You have a great list that has been presented to you. Take this and figure out what your boys want.

 

As for the discussion of fires. You can have a fire for camping and still follow the LNT principles. I do not know about the new Scout HB, But look in some of the older ones, they show you how to do that. Of course this is all dependant on you local area and what they will let you do. Here in NC, as long as there is no burn ban then we can pretty much have a campfire anytime.

 

Hope this helps.

[Hal_Crawford]

One good reason to lean toward the lightweight is that even for car camping space seems to be at a premium. Our troop does not own a trailer though we will rent one from time to time. The SM has a trailer hitch and one of the ASMs does as well but his is a Honda crossover without a lot of towing capacity.

 

I like chuck boxes for front country camping but they are becoming a logistical challenge. I am seeing more and more camp outs where there is not enough room for them. Most parents and leaders are driving Priuses, other small cars or smaller crossovers. In our troop the mini-van and the full sized SUV are now the exception. Nothing destroys the patrol method faster than the announcement that we can only carry one chuck box for the two patrols.

 

Now this is in the DC area. Things may be dramatically different where you are. My advice however is to look at the available transportation before committing to the heavy weight approach.

 

Hal

 

 

[dewASM]

Thanks so much for all the info. I will carefully consider all the suggestions and spend some time discussing it with the troop.

 

I have already purchased the troop program books as well as SM handbook, troop committee book. Do need to purchase SPL book and a fieldbook but this will be done long before the grant is considered. I have most of the paperwork done for the checking account just waiting for people to go in and fill out the signature cards.

 

We are a young troop with limited camping experience (and as predicted, mostly small vehicles) so I will take a cautious, slow and steady approach to acquiring equipment. I do think several things such as a good first aid kit and our flags need to be a priority. Some things like tents we can probably use the Scouts and borrow a few to try before we purchase.

 

thanks again for all the input and I'll let you know how it goes.

 

[Horizon]

dewASM:

 

Welcome to the campfire.

 

Head to the Council HQ and find out where most of the tour permits take the local troops. Having a nice listing of different places you can get to is very helpful. We have sites where we are crammed together, but the trail availability is awesome. We also do some lightweight high adventure, but is self-limiting due to elevation and trail. When I joined the troop, we already had the patrol boxes and a small trailer for them and our tents, dutch ovens, propane tanks, etc. They work quite well for Base camping, and when space is available at the sites some of my Patrols do their best to scatter.

 

For lightweight, the Troop is working on getting a new set of supplies. Every Patrol will eventually have two Bear Cannisters, two lightweight stoves, and one water filtration pump. This is a slow process, however, given the cost. A bear can costs $70 for example.

[Beavah]

Yah, I passed kenk's questions along to a local SM whose troop is mostly on da lightweight gear thing. Here are the responses (edited for brevity)

 

When lightweight gear troops camp, what cookware do you use? What kind of pots/pans do you use?

We use aluminum backpacking-style cookware, though a bit larger than the two-person stuff you see in backpack-only shops. Not really much different from what we used to have, except that we don't have the big 10-quart pots anymore.

 

Do you bring along any foods that need to be kept cold (milk, eggs, cheese, meats)?

Sure, in the fall/winter/early spring without a cooler, and in summer for canoe or car-camping. It's easy for each patrol to have a small cooler. You don't need to keep eggs or cheese cold, so if you cook by patrol the coolers can be real small.

 

Do lightweight troops still use the 3-bucket washing/sanitizing method?

No, we switched when we got some of our adults to do LNT training. Other methods are just as safe, easier, faster, and more responsible.

 

Do the lightweight troops use gas lanterns? Probably not.

We still have a couple left over. About the only time they're used is summer camp, if then. The small LED lanterns these days are cheaper, safer, and almost as bright. The kids use those most of the time. Or they just wear headlamps.

 

Do you bring along an axe? I suspect you need to in order for boys complete Second Class requirement 2c & 2d?

Sure, when it's appropriate.

 

Do you build campfires? If there is such a concern about the scars left by a patrol box, I would suspect campfires would be completely out of the question. Then again, how do the boys complete Second Class requirement 2f & 2g?

It's tougher and tougher with fire bans and wood transport bans. We still have fires, but I think we've become more responsible about them.

 

Do lightweight troops ever use dutch ovens? I would suspect not. That's kind of a shame. Our boys really enjoy using dutch ovens.

I think our boys do a LOT more cooking now than they did. Heavy gear means heavy, production-style cooking. The lightweight stuff makes it easy to cook in small groups by patrol. More kids get experience cooking all kinds of ways, not just dutch-oven baking.

 

There are lots of ways to bake, too, not just big cast-iron dutch ovens. Some boys use reflector ovens, some use stove bake kits, some use stoves with top-heat coals. Older scouts can whip up a pie, cobbler, or chicken cordon blue just fine. In fact, they're faster with less cleanup than the DO's. We still have the cast iron ovens, but they're being used less and less.

 

[CA_Scouter]

Ya, everything Beav reported plus:

 

We don't always backpack, but we we try to do more of that then car camp.

 

We sometimes bring dutch ovens when we car camp, though we still use the lightweight gear for other cooking.

 

We don't bring axes when we backpack, don't need 'em. Fires are small in the backcountry and sometimes we can't have 'em due to conditions.

 

ANYONE CAN CAR CAMP. Challenge yourself! Teach your guys to do more with less. If you can't teach 'em, learn with 'em. ( its actually OK for the adults to learn new things in scouts too.. ;-) )

 

Going lightweight generates a TON of skillbases - equipment use and care, lighter gear, clothing, menus, menus, menus and more...

 

 

*disclaimer* the previous opinion is for the sole enjoyment of the audience and is not intended in any way to diagnose or treat any existing or imagined condition. Opinions are like belly buttons: everyone's got one. ;-)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Knot Head]

I second all the folks that say to buy backpacking lightwight stoves and lightweight gear to start.

 

Our troop has the boys buy their own tents. That way they have a vested interest in taking care of their tent.

 

Practice with a plop camping trip if you need to but then hit the trail to Kayak, Canoe and backpack. You can plop with lightwight gear but you can't backpack with big heavy gear. You can always accumulate the heavy gear later if you want to.

 

Kids get tired of car camping after a year or two in our troop, but there are backpackers & canoe guys in the troop that camp until they age out.

 

My $.02

 

EDIT: We do about 50/50 car camping & adventure camping. We have the old heavy gear and the light gear. The older scouts seem alot more interested and attendance is better when we canoe, backpack, kayak and go lightweight. If you are staring out you could use the lightweight stoves for both car & adventure camping, but you can't really take a big 'ol stove, cooler, dutch oven and big propane tank on a backpack trip.

 

And don't underestimate the fun a 10-11 year old can have on a 4 mile in 4 mile out backpacking trip. They love it and feel like they are really "roughing it". It's like real scouting. Make them use a compas when you hit a fork in the trail to figure out which way to go. If they pick the wrong trail, let them walk it anyway, it's a good learning experience. They are a little more teachable after a detour like that. The old guys take a 10 mile route while the new guys go 4 miles and we camp together.

 

Start small with a short backpack trip and gain experience. It's not that hard but is alot of fun.(This message has been edited by knot head)