new Scout handbook info from PTC

[cheffy]

On your way to Santa Fe, Take the "high Road" stop at Rancho de Chimayo for Lunch. Even if you just get an appetizer it's worth it.

Also a great fast place in Santa fe is Tortilla Flats. Esp. for breakfast.

[emb021]

"Someone posted a rumor a couple weeks back that Wilderness First Aid was going to be added as a requirement for Star."

 

On one level that might sound like a great idea, on another its a very bad idea.

 

The availability of WFA in many areas is extremly poor.

 

In the council next door, they have someone who offers it twice a year. It takes a whole weekend to do. AFAIK, no one offers it in my council. I try to find out when its being offered so that the Venturers and others in my council know about it and take advantage of it.

 

I would certainly like to see any scout about the rank of First Class, and any Venturer going after the Outdoor Bronze to have it. But there aren't enought opportunities for them to get it.

 

 

[Kudu]

gwd-scouter writes:

 

What is the EDGE method and how is it used to teach someone to tie a knot?

 

To understand EDGE theory try the following experiment:

 

1) Hand out a sheet of paper to every Scout in your Troop.

 

2) Tell them to make a paper airplane and fly it.

 

3) Every boy will soon be tossing his paper airplane in the air.

 

4) Now carefully "Explain" the technique of making a paper airplane.

 

5) "Demonstrate" step by step the proper procedure for folding a paper airplane.

 

6) Hand out a second sheet of paper and carefully "Guide" them through the process.

 

7) When you "Enable" boys to make a paper airplane the number of them that can still do it will have decreased by approximately the same percentage as the decrease in the market value of all corporations that use the corporate "leadership skills" taught in Wood Badge and talk about "ethics" in their "mission statement."

 

Kudu

[shortridge]

These may be dumb questions, but still:

 

- Is TLT mandatory for youth leaders?

- Is EDGE a part of adult leader training aside from Wood Badge?

 

I'm wondering also how an old-style Scoutmaster who isn't familiar with EDGE is going to sign off on that requirement.

[Eagle92]

So EDGE is the new Show, Teach, Do, i.e. Show how it's done,Teach them how to do it, and then let them DO it?

[Hal_Crawford]

My previous post may have sounded like I am not in favor of WFA. In fact I have taken it and think it is a very valuable course. There are two issues I see that are challenges in making it an advancement requirement.

 

1. Cost. Currently most courses cost $100 and up (way up in some cases). I was fortunate to take a course through our council that only cost $75. That is still to much to require of scouts in many parts of the country. BSA is working to bring down the cost but there is only so low it can go.

2. Age. Most WFA courses have minimum ages of 14 or 15. The ethical life and death decision making that is part of the course requires a certain level of maturity. This is why I thought it would be wrong to require it for Star. Many scouts hit Star at 12 or 13 and this would really put the breaks on their advancement. Incorporating WFA further along the path to Eagle would be a better idea.

 

If I were the king that ruled the scouts I would consider doing one of two things.

1. If the course could be made truly accessible to all scouts I would make it a requirement for Eagle with BSA Lifeguard as a possible alternative. CPR would also be required because it is a prerequisite for both certifications.

2. If that was not feasible I would create a WFA merit badge with an Eagle requirement of Lifesaving, Emergency Preparedness or Wilderness First Aid.

 

WFA MB would have at least 3 requirements. Earn First Aid MB, be trained and certified in CPR and in WFA from either the BSA or another recognized agency. They could goop it up with a couple of extra explains or demonstrates but that would basically be it.

 

Finally, I would add a POR for Troop First Aider. To qualify the scout would have had to have completed the WFA requirement or MB. Duties would include serving as First Aider on outings and treks and to be the First Aid trainer for the T-2-1 first aid requirements. I suppose he could be required to use the EDGE method but I don't really care on way or t'other.

 

But alas, I am not King of All Scouts. Lunch is over and I have to go to a meeting.

 

Hal

[GernBlansten]

Yes, E.D.G.E. is a re-marketed Show/Teach/Do that has been a core to human learning for millenia. But because it has a catching Acronym and is taught in WB, it has special significance. My first exposure to EDGE was in TLT training in our unit by a freshly minted WB'er. My silent thought bubble just said, "Well, DUHHHH!"

[evmori]

Oh goodie! More fancy acronyms for something we've been doing for decades!

[Twocubdad]

So what you are saying, Gern, is that despite the fact that this technique has been around since the dawn of civilization, it's inclusion in WB21 somehow nullifies it's usefulness?

 

The difference between EDGE and show/teach/do is the last "E" -- enable -- which is essentially a reminder for the teacher to get out of the way and let the students run with the skill. I'm surprised that's not something you guys support. Or does the fact that it is from the WB course automatically taint it?

 

 

[Eagle92]

I was just commenting on how everything old is new again.

[Buffalo Skipper]

My interpretation is that some people see EDGE as a management tool and not a leadership skill. From my perspective, it is neither. As a trainer this is an instruction method, one which can improve one's ability to manage. As Gern has said, "Well, DUHHHH!" I believe that the process of EDGE is obvious to leaders.

 

My 2.

[Lisabob]

"I'm wondering also how an old-style Scoutmaster who isn't familiar with EDGE is going to sign off on that requirement."

 

Leaving aside for the moment the question of introducing some acronymned training technique into the requirements... I'm kind of wondering this too. I hope it is at least well-written and explained in the new scout handbooks so that there is at least some written introduction that adults who aren't going to go through retraining can look at. (Or for districts and councils where leader training is sub-par, which appears to be many of them). It might be part of the new TLT but (again), that doesn't mean many long-time scout leaders know about it, are using it, have heard of it, etc.

 

The earn/save money requirement seems like a practical one. I like the expectation that a scout can identify 4 specific examples of living the scout oath/law. Too often I've seen scouts stumped by this type of question at BORs. As if it hadn't occurred to them that the Oath and Law are supposed to be more than just words to mumble at the start of a meeting. I'm ok with the LNT requirement too.

 

And I heartily agree with a previous poster's comment about introducing at least one or two outdoor/active/fun requirements too, not just adult-style piling on!

 

[emb021]

"Is TLT mandatory for youth leaders?"

 

There are no courses mandatory for youth leaders.

 

TLT is done within the troop. Ideally ALL youth leaders will go thru it.

 

"Is EDGE a part of adult leader training aside from Wood Badge?"

 

Yes. Trainers EDGE is the new 'train the trainer' course for both youth and adult trainers. In fact, Trainers EDGE is a required course for the new National Youth Leadership Society for Venturers.

 

[FScouter]

Don't look to the TLT syllabus for any explanation about EDGE or how to teach it. The only thing there is the definition of the acronym.

[John-in-KC]

Kudu, this is one of the rare times I'll agree with you, though I'm trying to figure out why your bitterness is so palpable, and you elect to share that bitterness in most every thread?

 

Even so, emb posted...

"Yes. Trainers EDGE is the new 'train the trainer' course for both youth and adult trainers. In fact, Trainers EDGE is a required course for the new National Youth Leadership Society for Venturers.

 

RANT

 

... AKA the new Venturing Profit Center for the National Council. There is just something which gets my goat about a "society" that is simply a list of names. At least NESA occasionally does something in each Council. This thing is a paper name list.

 

/ RANT

 

ETA: Al, hope you're having a good day today.

 

As far as acronym of EDGE vice STD... I have a wholly different connotation for STD. It was all those "be healthy and wholesome Soldiers, don't patronize the local ladies of the night" lectures I had to deliver my troops as a LT and CPT.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)