Parent who is life guard.... must also do BSA Lifeguard class?

[johnnylaw101]

I cant seem to find the answer to this question.

 

A parent is a Red Cross Approved Lifeguard and triathalete... and wants to be our lifeguard for water activities this summer when a lifeguard is required...

 

Does he need to also do the BSA Lifeguard class?? or this this class just for youths? Also, can his Red Cross certif. be recognized as identical to the BSA requirements and given the BSA Lifeguard status?

 

Also.... it seems that he would clearly qualify as a Lifeguard Counselor... due to the Red Cross Certification.. correct?

 

Help !

[emb021]

Adults can (and should) get BSA Lifeguard.

 

BSA Lifeguard is not quite equivalent to ARC Lifeguard. It includes a lot of waterfront training that is totally absent in ARC Lifeguard. ARC Lifeguard is fine for lifeguarding at a pool, but will not prepare you to be a lifeguard at a waterfront for swimming or boating. (so, no, one with ARC Lifeguard can't just be given BSA Lifeguard).

 

NOW, I thought that the BSA DID allow for people who had ARC Lifeguard to be the lifeguard during scouting events, but only at a pool. Not sure. Hopefully someone with more knowledge can give chapter & verse.

 

[Eagle92]

Actually from the G2SS found here:

 

http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/HealthandSafety/GSS/gss02.aspx

 

4. Lifeguards on Duty

Swim only where there are lifeguards on duty. For unit swims in areas where lifeguards are not provided by others, the supervisor should designate two capable swimmers as lifeguards. ... Provide one guard for every 10 people in the water....

 

So to answer your first question NO he doesn't need to be BSA Lifeguard, although most currently certified guards usually do duel certification, esp. since the BSA Lifeguard course is the toughest of the three I am familair with: BSA, YMCA, and ARC.

 

Also looking at the BSA lifeguard link from national here:

http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/BoyScouts/AdvancementandAwards/MeritBadges/lifeg.aspx

 

a certified lifeguard from another agency can challenge if they can do the following 25 things listed. In reviewing the 25 items, there is no boating requirements now, so it should be no problem.

 

As to being a BSA lifeguard Counselor, sorry you cannot do so as you need to get BSA Lifeguard AND do some extra training. I can't remember the exact requirements, nor can I find them online, but ask the waterfront director at Summer camp. I can tell you this, I was a YMCA lifeguard instructor/BSA lifeguard, and I wasn't certified to teach BSA Lifeguard, but I could teach Swimming, Lifesaving, Rowing, and Canoeing MBs. But that was when BSA Lifeguard required those skills.

[Eagle92]

EMB,

Boating requirements are now gone from BSA Lifeguard. I don't agree with that, but that's national's call.

[dg98adams]

Swim Defense requires ....

 

1. Qualified Supervision

All swimming activity must be supervised by a mature and conscientious adult age 21 or older who understands and knowingly accepts responsibility for the well-being and safety of youth members in his or her care, who is experienced in the water and confident of his or her ability to respond in the event of an emergency, and who is trained in and committed to compliance with the eight points of BSA Safe Swim Defense. (It is strongly recommended that all units have at least one adult or older youth member currently trained as a BSA Lifeguard to assist in the planning and conduct of all swimming activity.)

 

 

4. Lifeguards on Duty

Swim only where there are lifeguards on duty.

 

"For unit swims in areas where lifeguards are not provided by others, the supervisor should designate two capable swimmers as lifeguards. " **** Your Adult triAth does not need to be a Lifeguard!

 

Station them ashore, equipped with a lifeline (a 100-foot length of 3/8-inch nylon cord). In an emergency, one carries out the line; the other feeds it out from shore, then pulls in his partner and the person being helped. In addition, if a boat is available, have two people, preferably capable swimmers, take it outone rowing and the other equipped with a 10-foot pole or extra oar. Provide one guard for every 10 people in the water, and adjust the number and positioning of guards as needed to protect the particular area and activity.

[ScoutNut]

I thought this was all discussed in your other post on this very subject.

 

http://www.scouter.com/Forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=240532

 

You stated there that you had contacted your council and they would accept a Red Cross Lifeguard.

 

There is nothing more that any of us can add to what we have already told you, and what your council has told you.

 

If you have more questions on this, I would suggest you contact your council again to see what, specificaly, they will, and will not allow.

 

 

[Be_Prepared]

Answers as follows:

 

1) Unit Swim - as stated - no "lifeguard" is even needed

2) Only BSA Aquatics Instructor can pass off BSA Lifeguard

3) Red Cross lifeguard can be lifesaving or swimming MB Counselor

4) Crossover Challange - for Red Cross or other to become BSA Lifeguard. Must demonstrate ALL requirements.

5) Recert from existing BSA Lifguard to new 2009 BSA Lifeguard. Must demonsrate ALL requirements, except the 2 hour lifeguard session

[le Voyageur]

Johnnylaw101

 

The short answer is no to your question. For pools, and protected waterfronts each are more then capable. However, on rivers with strong currents, or swift water neither, unless trained and experienced otherwise for this enviroment should be considered qualified.

[GernBlansten]

For swift water, BSA lifeguard can't be sufficient either. Can it? They don't teach that at our summer camp.

[Eagle92]

Back in the day, they taught canoe and rowing rescues. You had to have First Aid, Swimming, Rowing, and Canoeing MBs as prerequisites for youth, or be able to demonstrate that you knew these skills for adults.

 

Now it looks as if BSA Lifeguard is being watered down to only pool and beachside guarding. No boating whatsoever.

[SM196]

Hello

According to the new tour permits don't you need a BSA certifed life guard to do any boating or water activities? I was considering taking BSA life guard at summercamp so our troop would have no problems going on events that require it but I am not sure how rigorus the actual swimming is. I'm out of shape and just missed blue swimmer last year. We have a boy that is taking it so that will help us.

[Eagle92]

SM,

If you plan on taking BSA Lifeguard, start working out NOW! BSA was the toughest course around because they included boating skills AND some "hand-to-hand combat" skills and situations that ARC and YMCA no longer teaches, at least when I was current ("what you mean there is no such thing as a double drowning anymore, we just had one a few weeks ago?"). I admit it's been a while and course has changed to a more pool/beachfront type course similar to ARC and YMCA, but"Be Prepared" for some challenges.

 

I highly recommend every unit unit have 2 or more BSA Lifeguards, especially with the adults. One reason is that you then have Scouts and adults who have a very good water rescue foundation. Another reason is that in certain boating situations, you will need an adult certified lifeguard to have some of your non-swimmers go out in a canoe, raft, or sailboat. Now why an adult certified lifeguard and not a certified lifeguard, I can only think of liability issues.

[ScoutOne]

johnnylaw101,

 

All major agencies that offer life guarding certifications are recognized. Having taken both, the base Red Cross certification does have a greater emphasis on life guarding at a facility but does not differ very significantly from BSA Lifeguard. However, the certifications are not the same and different techniques are used. The Red Cross offers a separate module for waterfront life guarding that is not available in all areas. Someone who is Red Cross or YMCA certified will also not familiar with BSA policies and should obviously take Safe Swim and Safety Afloat.

 

Having a life guard who is current in their skills is far more important than if their original training covered life guarding on a waterfront. This can be difficult if someone is certified but does not use their skills on a regular basis.

 

For employment a council can require additional requirements such as becoming BSA Lifeguard. This can easily be accomplished during in service training.

 

[Gunny2862]

I was certified last summer using the "New" requirements.

It was no joke.

 

We DID do Rowboat, Canoe, and extra-curricularly Sailboard rescues.

The break-aways from a combative swimmer were interesting but not that bad.

My Instructor for the Counselor portion did do some extra instruction away from the rest of the Lifeguard class members on combatives in the water - he MADE me knock him out in order to pass on the Counselor portion - I feel certain this isn't in the syllabus(it isn't) but he wanted to be sure I wouldn't let someone drown me because I wouldn't take care of myself first, in order to take care of them. And Lifeguard trainees can usually handle themselves well enough in the water that if they were to lose it they can be extremely dangerous.

 

Just because one is a Lifeguard in ANY other system doesn't mean they can instruct on that system much less any other. I don't think that any Lifeguard (of any System) should be able to cross-over to BSA Lifeguard Counselor w/o at least the Counselor module, regardless of whatever other systems they teach. Unless, perhaps, they are a Course Developer in that other system, but that's a whole other discussion.