Pornography

[ScoutNut]

It does matter whether or not you believe in a certain law.

 

You can debate moral and ethical quandaries until your fingers fall off.

 

I do not care what you teach YOUR children, or let them do, or not do.

 

However, this is Scouting, not debate class.

 

When it come to MY kids, and the kids that have been entrusted to my care, I care a LOT.

 

There is a time and place for all things. A scouting event is neither the time, or the place to be viewing porn.

 

If you can not agree with that, then you are NOT the type of person I want influencing MY kids. PERIOD.

 

This is not YOUR program, and these are not YOUR kids.

 

As a registered leader you promise to live by the Scout Oath, Promise, and Law. You promise to follow the BSA's Charter, Bylaws, rules and regulations.

 

As parents, we expect the BSA leaders we are entrusting our children to, to respect us, and the BSA program they have promised to follow.

 

If you can't do that, then you should find another program that fits YOUR belief system better.

 

 

 

[ScoutNut]

"How would you handle pornography found at meetings/campouts?"

 

Irregardless of the age of the youth involved - I would confiscate it, explain that this was neither the time, or place for it, return it to his parent at the end of the activity with an explanation of where/how it was discovered.

 

After that it would be up to the parent to do as their belief system dictates.

 

 

 

 

 

[xlpanel]

Final Verdict:

 

You can try to get the kid to stop out of respect for the others around him. But that is all. No punishment. Just ask him to stop AT THE CURRENT TIME.

 

Tell him you don't care what he does when he is not on a campout. Don't punish him at all. Just ask him to stop for the respect of others present. Do not mutilate his belongings, do not tell his parents. Do not demand his parents drive 1000 miles round trip.

 

This will lead to the scout losing his trust of you. Then, if there really IS a problem, he will not talk about it.

 

Do not try to alienate him, either. That will backfire against you, the scoutmaster. The other boys will rally on his side, as they also believe it is not a big deal.

[evmori]

Final Verdict:

 

You can try to get the kid to stop out of respect for the others around him. But that is all. No punishment. Just ask him to stop AT THE CURRENT TIME.

 

Why no punishment? This kid has violated the Scout Law & the legal law.

 

Tell him you don't care what he does when he is not on a campout. Don't punish him at all. Just ask him to stop for the respect of others present. Do not mutilate his belongings, do not tell his parents. Do not demand his parents drive 1000 miles round trip.

 

If he is in possession of a pornographic publication, it should be mutilated. It serves no purpose on a camp out. His parents will be told & there is a possibility they might have to come get him.

 

This will lead to the scout losing his trust of you. Then, if there really IS a problem, he will not talk about it.

 

You've got to be kidding! Are you making this stuff up?

 

Do not try to alienate him, either. That will backfire against you, the scoutmaster. The other boys will rally on his side, as they also believe it is not a big deal.

 

No one has advocated alienating anyone!

 

xlpanel,

 

Are you actually a Scout leader or just a troll? I hope a troll.

[Twocubdad]

Re: "Final Verdict"

 

After seven pages of posts do you really think that is a concensus of those posting? Perhaps you should re-read the thread, this time including the posts written by others.

 

First let me preface this by saying I do consider both content and context. Was it Jeff Foxworthy who said the difference between naked and nekkid is naked means no clothes, nekkid means no clothes and you're up to something. No clothes is one thing, but the stuff where folks are up to something will get you in trouble.

 

To me there is a difference between the plain ol' girley magazines (bare tops and bottoms and legs crossed) and the explicit, graphic stuff in which the folks in the photos are up to something. I would describe the latter as pornographic. That's going to get you sent home (across the street or across the country) and probably a suspension to boot.

 

The girley stuff may or may not get you in trouble with the troop, depending on the age of the Scout, the content of the material and what you are doing with it (like showing it to younger Scouts). In any event it will get taken away and turned over to the parents. The parents may take xl's approach and think it's no big deal. Or they may go off on him. That is their choice. It is my responsibility to make them aware of their son's behavior. I'm not going to be put into a position where I appear to have given tacit approval to the behavior by ignoring it.

[ScoutNut]

>>"The parents may take xl's approach and think it's no big deal. Or they may go off on him. That is their choice. It is my responsibility to make them aware of their son's behavior. I'm not going to be put into a position where I appear to have given tacit approval to the behavior by ignoring it."

[OldGrayOwl]

How about instead of Pornography (which is against the law for anyone under the age of 18, Beer is found? A some kids try it (not a lot, but some), and according to xp, that will be OK. No sense in notifying the parents with that one either, and why make them drive 1K miles round trip for something as minor as that?

 

Where do you set the limits, XP?(This message has been edited by oldgrayowl)

[xlpanel]

Lets clarify some from the earlier posts.

 

Contrary to popular belief, I am NOT advocating giving the kids all the porn they want and finding it for them. I am NOT advocating the SM hooking up a projector and a screen and the kids all watching it every evening.

 

I just am advocating no punishment for those who have it in possession. I don't want them to bring it on a campout, but once they do, I am not gonna blow up about it. Take it calmly and everything will turn out for the best.

 

And beer is an interesting counter-example. If Johnny came up to me and told me that Billy had beer on a campout, I would ask Billy if he had beer. I would look for beer cans. If he had it, I would ask him why he thought it was appropriate to bring, and if he knew how much legal trouble he could get in, along with the person that brought it for him. I would tell him that he is not to share it with others, and he better not be drunk when I see him next. Again, confinscating and calling the cops will put me in the middle of a trial, which is a pain to deal with, make Billy not like me, and possibly land some of Billy's friends in trouble for supply, which will make the kids like what I did even less.

 

The best is the same approach with porn. If Johnny told me Billy had porn, I would asky billy about it. I would see if it was obvious, such as a mag on a table. If he had it, I would tell him that he shouldn't bring it on campouts, BUT THERE WOULD BE NO PUNISHMENT FOR HIM! That is what I am adovacting the whole time here. You don't need to punish him for it, just ask him not to do it again. That is normally good enough.

 

And this thread isn't about "state what the G2SS and National say about something while blindly repeating the scout oath and law".

 

The thread asked "what would YOU do if xxxxxx happened?"

 

I told you guys what I would do. I do not advocate them bringing porn, but jeez, back off the kid, just ask him not to do it again. Don't dream up a punishment. Don't tell others about him. Don't force mommy to drive 1000 miles. (Want a better way to make mom side with junior than this?). Ask him to put it away.

 

I hope i have persuaded others to see the wisdom of this way and how it keeps everyone calmer and the unit function nicer.

[PeteM]

xlpanel,

 

Thank you for your clarification.

Yes, you are correct. That's what I asked and what I didn't want was the moral high road as how it is wrong, etc. I wasn't even asking about the porn mags, just the electronic version of the stuff.

 

Pete

[evmori]

Tell him beer is illegal but not porn? Both are illegal for people under age.

 

No one is suggesting you go off on the kid. Just take the porn away & tell mom & dad! If you let him keep it & not inform mom & dad, what's to stop him from bringing it next time, xlpanel?

 

And if Billy ends up not liking you because you were doing the right thing, oh well! Kids want boundaries & rules from adults. They don't want adults to be their friends.

[ScoutNut]

Oh Lordy Xlpanel, before you go around telling the world that you would let underage youth drink alcohol at a BSA campout, I suggest you ask your parents what they would do if they found out that while you were on a high school field trip, you were drinking alcohol, one, or more, of your teachers found out, and the only thing they did was tell you not to share it with anyone, and not to let them see you drunk.

 

If you ever get to be an adult, perhaps you will realize how absolutely idiotic, not to mention irresponsible and illegal, your comments and suggested actions are.

 

Sheesh kid !

(This message has been edited by Scoutnut)

[OldGreyEagle]

In a few weeks I will be at Summer Camp with the Troop. Lets say as I pass by a tent, I hear the distinctive "pop" of a soda can opening and then get a whiff of yeast and malt. Now, owing to a bear population in camp there is to be no food or drinks in the tents so I am a little concerned for the safety of the occupnats

 

I go to the tent opening and I hear an "Oh F*** its Mr GreyEagle!" and a tittering of giggles, I open the flap to see three older scouts hiding beer cans and Hustler/Penthouse magazines.

 

Now, if I tell them, "look guys, I don't care what you do, keep it out of the sight of the young guys" and then walk away.

I can guarantee you by the next morning at Flags, the whole camp (youth only) will know what happened and also "know" that I shared a can or two with the youth, read aloud a few Penthouse Forum Letters, and ogled some centerfold while describing in detail my desires.

 

At the very least, the scouts will know I don't care and only embolden them to bring more on the next campout. "Hey, I can bring this, Mr GreyEagle didnt care when we brought beer, why would he care if we brought weed, betcha he tokes a bit himself, thats why he is so mellow..."

 

Then on the next campout, the scoutmaster catches the boys, and what is their first response?

 

"We don't know why you are throwing sich a fit Mr Scoutmaster, good ol'GreyEagle caught us at summercamp and joined in with us or didnt say anything to you then"

 

How long for the Scouting World would I be? How could I face the parents of the other youth, the three might have permissive parents who don't care how their sons behave, but I have the responsibility to live up the the Chartering Organizations Values, and they do not include under age drinking and the perusal of porn.

 

And maybe the only time the boys face any restrictions of their libido and taste for suds is in Boy scouts, what a great teaching opportunity to learn that you can't always get what you want, but sometimes they just might get what they need, enforced boundaries(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

[John-in-KC]

I'm going to do my very best to say this in one-syllable words, Mr Xpanel. You seem to need them that way:

 

- Nudie books, sex tales, beer, wine, hard booze, drugs and smokes are out of law for young people to have/use.

 

- You signed the same piece of paper I did: You agreed to uphold the Scout Oath and Law at all times and in all places.

 

- Tough love now and then has to be part of a young man's trail to become a grown-up. To remove things a young man should not have at a Scout camp is part of tough love. To call his Mom and Dad and ask them to take their son home is part of tough love. It's known as "bad acts have results in your life."

 

- If you do not agree with what I said, then you and I part company on the Scout Trail right away. You, Sir, are not the kind of Scouter I want my child and some day grandchildren within 100 miles of.

 

To quote Anne Robinson, "You are The WEAKEST LINK! GOOD-bye!"