Pornography

[SctDad]

Were they fudge brownies???

 

Good story though

[fleetfootedfox]

Yeah, I am reminded of a little story about Jesus who said something like let the person who is without sin throw the first stone. That said, some consequences are in order, but I don't think it's an automatic trip home.

 

If the boy brought a magazine taped to his leg, that is a lot of effort he went through. It is premeditated, so I might actually view that differently than the phone stuff which may not be planned. On the other hand, as somebody else said, Playboy isn't illegal.

 

Also, I know that child porn is totally illegal, but IMHO if a girl the same age texts them something, that is different from an adult having child porn even if the police wouldn't think so.

[Kudu]

I wish I could remember where I heard that story from to give the author proper credit.

 

Most likely the source was one of those viral Emails that ends with the words "Think about it."

 

You can credit Kudu for the alternative ending:

 

The younger brother was a very practical boy. From the day as a younger child he helped his mom "devein" shrimps for a Christmas party until the time when he could field dress his own kills, he observed that keeping poop out of meat requires a level of effort most likely beyond the standards of factory processed food. Likewise he observed that grains always include trace amounts of insect and rodent waste, and fresh fruits and vegetables routinely make headlines as the carriers of E. coli. Therefore, reasoned the worldly boy, everyone eats a little poop every day.

 

The older brother was the more philosophical of the two. His father's assertion that inappropriate content stays with the beholder forever, reminded him of the parable of the two Buddhist monks who come upon a woman who needs help to cross a river. The rules of their monastery strictly forbid any physical contact with the opposite sex, but without thinking the older monk picks the woman up and carries her across the river. As the day passes the younger monk becomes more and more agitated until finally the older monk asks if he is OK.

 

"What do you mean?" answers the younger monk in anger, "You violated our precepts by touching that woman!"

 

The older monk replies, "I set her down miles ago, but you are vexed because you still carry her in your mind"

 

So for very different reasons both brothers eat a brownie thereby affirming the reasoning that they had presented for viewing the movie. Sure enough, as their father predicted, neither of them suffers any ill effects! The parents are surprised to discover that their sons' logic is so earnest, but they now have no choice but to honor the terms of the agreement.

 

The victorious boys go see the movie. They discover that its excellent reputation is due to the portrayal of truth strengthened rather than diminished by rising above the events portrayed in the minor negative scenes. Because it is based on tested faith, the positive message becomes a significant influence on the lives of both brothers. On a far more immediate level the boys inspire the fear and awe of their peers as a result of the impeccable bragging rights of having accepted their parent's outrageous dare.

 

The moral of the story is never swallow the assumptions of moral absolutists who are willing to feed you crap just to prove their point.

 

Kudu

(This message has been edited by Kudu)

[Novice_Cubmaster]

And mom's found a new way to make 2 trays of brownies with 1 box of mix.

 

Mmm.

 

NC

[packsaddle]

Anyone ever watch "Pink Flamingos"? Especially the very last scene that takes place in Boise?

[SMT224]

Going back to the discussion of questionable images or info on a cell phone...

 

Most kids who have info on their cell phones they do not want others to see - I'm talking personal text messages or photos (not necessarily pornographic in nature) - can easily and very quickly lock their phone. A specific password is required to unlock and see anything on the phone.

 

If a kid is savvy enough to download porn, he will likely be able to almost instantly lock his cell so no one can see what he's got in there. If an adult walks in to a tent with a bunch of giggling boys, how likely is it he will really see what's on that phone? And, are you libel for harboring porn if you confiscate a phone that is password protected?

 

[Eagle1982]

Kudu, funny story. I know I heard my version on the radio, just can't remember when or who did it (I drive a lot for my job).

 

So, it's interesting the Scout Oath doesn't go "Physically fit, mentally awake and LEGALLY straight", but rather says "Morally Straight". Naturally, everyone has their own interpretation of what is moral (I mean, just because they wouldn't be allowed it in school or at the kitchen table, doesn't make it immoral).

 

While moral absolutists may use a cute story to make a point, I suppose we all can just go with the flow and say, "What's the big deal?"

 

http://gmy.news.yahoo.com/v/13710340

 

I mean, in light of the story above, doesn't it just make you want to be a teen again?

 

[ScoutNut]

Interestingly enough, BSA addresses this very issue on their new website -

 

http://www.scouting.org/Training/YouthProtection.aspx

 

"Cameras, imaging, and digital devices. While most campers and leaders use cameras and other imaging devices responsibly, it has become very easy to invade the privacy of individuals. It is inappropriate to use any device capable of recording or transmitting visual images in shower houses, restrooms, or other areas where privacy is expected by participants."

 

"Digital Privacy

A key ingredient for a safe and healthy Scouting experience is the respect for privacy. Advances in technology are enabling new forms of social interaction that extend beyond the appropriate use of cameras or recording devices (see Barriers to Abuse Within Scouting). Sending sexually explicit photographs or videos electronically or sexting by cell phones is a form of texting being practiced primarily by young adults and children as young as middle-school age. Sexting is neither safe, nor private, nor an approved form of communication and can lead to severe legal consequences for the sender and the receiver. Although most campers and leaders use digital devices responsibly, educating them about the appropriate use of cell phones and cameras would be a good safety and privacy measure."

 

 

 

 

[Kudu]

Eagle1982 writes:

 

So, it's interesting the Scout Oath doesn't go "Physically fit, mentally awake and LEGALLY straight", but rather says "Morally Straight".

 

It is also interesting that the Young Men's Christian Association was able to impose their foundational trinity ("healthy body, healthy mind, healthy spirit") on the American version of Baden-Powell's Scout Promise in the first place.

 

The YMCA was rabidly opposed to Baden-Powell's two most basic tenants of Scouting: That Scouting is the opposite of school, and that a Scout Troop is run by the most competent Patrol Leaders, not the adults. Unless pornography is so rife in PeteM's Troop that it is not only oozing out of the tents at campouts but also being "found" at weekly Troop meetings, then perhaps this thread is merely a cutting-edge excuse for adults to invent more bylaws:

 

How would you handle pornography found at meetings/campouts? ... Does your pack/troop/crew have a no pornography policy? How would you handle this, other than banning these electronic devices?

 

Troop bylaws, along with Boards of Review, Scoutmaster Conferences, Scout Spirit requirements, PORs (regular election cycles), and schoolwork Merit Badges, are all American inventions that keep BSA Troops adult-run as the YMCA intended. This obsession over the moral or legal ramifications of what might be locked away in some Scout's cell phone is just a new subset of adult micromanagement.

 

Eagle1982 writes:

 

I mean, in light of the story above, doesn't it just make you want to be a teen again?

 

I do know that some girls were doing it for boys back in 1962. The idea that human beings changed recently is the cornerstone of the 44 year movement to dumb Scouting down to the business manager level.

 

In fact since he assumed office, the Chief Scout Executive has been conducting a media blitz praising Leadership Development and explaining why Scouting must switch from camping to computers, aerospace, and soccer so that modern boys can benefit from "sitting side by side with adults of character." It is true that soccer is more "popular" with "today's youth" than Scouting, but when Leadership Development gets done doing to soccer what it did to the Patrol Method, "modern boys" are going to hate soccer just as much as they hate post-Hillcourt Scouting.

 

Scouter.Com is dedicated to Green Bar Bill. If a Troop is using his Patrol Method rather than the Leadership Development version of the "Patrol Method," its Scouters will be less concerned with banning electronics (in order to preserve the pristine wilderness experience for Scouts who are always 2-20 feet from the nearest hovering adult), and more involved in guiding Scouts to select the "right sort" of Patrol Leader to run their Patrol while it hikes and camps at least 300 feet from everyone else, as Baden-Powell suggested.

 

Kudu

 

[evmori]

SMT224,

 

I doubt if an adult confiscates a phone with porn on it they would be considered to be harboring porn. Better than confiscating the phone, just remove the sim chip if it has one and take the battery! All the passwords in the world won't help if there is no power!

[Eamonn]

I think that we need to be careful not to get our knickers in a twist.

While in some places the law has not caught up with Sexting and in these places the penalties can be very sever, most of the young people who are involved in it see it as a prank.

I don't have a daughter, but I would hope if I did that she wouldn't be taking naughty photos of herself and sending them to her boyfriend.

Many of the boys who receive these photos have no control over what they are getting.

A year or so back my in-box on my computer was being bombarded with mail that promised to make my you know what three inches longer, that along with the barrister in Africa who wanted to send me many millions of dollars that some long lost relative had left me from a diamond mine.

I don't know why a girl would want to send this sort of thing? Maybe it's a cry for attention? Maybe her boyfriend is asking for the photos? I don't know.

I don't see these as porn.

The boys who forward these pictures on are in some ways involved in modern day gossip.

Gossip is never a good thing and can be be very hurtful and at times harmful.

The web and the Internet have made porn available to just about anyone who owns a computer. At this time the cell phone I use is a dinosaur but I know that there are phones that have the capability of doing everything that my computer can do.

 

Trying to come up with ways of dealing with all of this in a Scouting setting is not going to be easy.

Sure the easy way is to make rules.

No Phones.

No Computers.

No Cameras?

Still as an organization that talks about teaching the ability to make ethical choices, I'm not sure if this is the right road to take?

It takes away the choice, it teaches nothing other than to just follow the rule or don't get caught.

If we really want the kids we work with and for to be Trusted? We need to trust them.

As I see it our goal should be that they do the right thing just because it's the right thing to do.

Step one has to be for us the adults to explain why Sexting is wrong, how it harms and hurts people and why it has no place in Scouting. Many kids just see this as a harmless prank, we need to explain that it more than just a prank.

I do have to admit that I'd find an open and meaningful conversation about pornography with a group of young Scouts very difficult. I have when the topic came up discussed my views with a car-full of older Sea Scouts. Having female Sea Scouts there made it easier for me!

While all the Scouts agreed porn was wrong, a few of them questioned why it was so wrong? I ended up not having to say very much, the Scouts in the car in their own ways worked it out and did a far better job than I might have done.

I do think if I was going to cover this with a Troop of Boy Scouts, I'd try and find some people from outside of the Troop (A judge and maybe someone from the clergy?) to lead the conversation and I'd warn the parents and invite them to attend.

As for the consequences for a Scout having this type of stuff?

I do think that his (Or her) parents do need to be informed each and every time. The material does need to be taken from the Scout. If that means deleting it or keeping the phone in a place away from the Scout? I'm not sure. I think that should be done case by case.

As a leader I'd be happy to pass this on to the Committee and allow them to deal with it.

If I were a member of the committee?

This would be tough.

I know as a young Lad I read Playboy and shared some what were then "Dirty" pictures with other Scouts. (A few years later the same sort of pictures appeared everyday on page 3 of the Sun Newspaper)

It isn't the Scouts fault that this sort of stuff is out there and so easy to access.

I think if I were a Committee member I'd want to talk with the parents and make them aware that this sort of thing has no place in Scouting and ask them to try and ensure that it never happens again.

They might want to sit their son down and talk with him or have someone else talk with him. If they found that the Lad was viewing a lot of this kinda stuff on his computer they might want to get some kind of professional help for him?

I'd also suggest that for a while it might be a good idea that he didn't take his cell phone or computer to Scouting activities or if he did that he have an adult take care of it for him.

Eamonn

 

 

[Basementdweller]

My parents believe I should have paper. It is against the troops policy. Also, isn't paper at tool.

 

Someone had to say it.

 

One passing thought, If a young scout has pictures of his nekid GF on his phone and you confiscate it, you are now in possession of child porn and against the law. Sexting is ok for the under 18 crowd but a big no no for the over 18 crowd to have pictures of the under 18 crowd in their possession. Kiddy porn is universally frowned upon and will get you ejected from scouting and sent to jail.

 

What if the young man informs LE to your "problem" while your in possession of the phone.

 

Just a thought.

 

 

[evmori]

One passing thought, If a young scout has pictures of his nekid GF on his phone and you confiscate it, you are now in possession of child porn and against the law.

 

I disagree. While the phone is in your possession, the kiddy porn is not yours. And if you feel this is an issue, just remove the sim chip and/or battery! No power or OS, no phone!

[Lisabob]

basement, your assertion that this is ok for the "under 18 crowd" does not match up to what has been going on, at least in my area. Kids - boys and girls both - have been suspended, expelled, and arrested for having and/or sending this sort of thing. Not to mention that some kids have found out the hard way that once this sort of photo is "out there," it becomes impossible to control who sees it. I have read some stories about kids attempting to harm themselves as a result. Definitely not ok.

 

One of our scouts recently got into hot water because another boy sent him (and a lot of other people) a photo of the boy's girlfriend. The scout did not ask for it and deleted it immediately without sending it to anyone else. However, the image made its way all around the school. When the image was traced as having been sent to his phone, the school jumped all over this scout and contacted the police too.

[John-in-KC]

I've not seen the youth YP modules recently; have they been updated to cover internet and sexting?

 

TO ME ... this is great stuff for a guest Scoutmaster's Minute, conducted by a Law Enforcement officer. Let him help walk this particular dog, as preventive medicine. Up to now, we've been talking about reactions to an event. I think we as Scouters need to focus on keeping our young charges out of Beavah's office on his billable hours!