NYLT

[eagle77]

Couldn't agree with more Mafaking. From what I have heard though is that more and more councils are looking for those adults working their tickets to help and volunteer for other programs. Some have become down right dependent on it. One question though, How can you have a boy-led program if more of your adults are trained then the youth?

[Eagle92]

77,

I think the reason why adult training gets pushed more is that it is the adults obligation to TRAIN the scouts under him. CS leaders DO have to do the leading, and Venturing are there to train and advise. Theoretically having more trained adults will ensure the youth get trained in the local level.

 

One problem with youth training is that overtime you lose the youth. They age out, move, or just drop. It's a constant process.

 

Also I know how difficult it is to get enough staff to host a JLT, and I am going to assume the same challenges are encountered with the new NYLT. At least my neck of the woods WB is a joint venture between two or more councils, so you can draw in more trainers and participants, making it easier to get both.

 

Maybe that's why national now allows WBers to get their extra beads via staffing NYLT? Grant you that should not be the reason, it should be to train youth to have the best possible program when they return to their units, but thta is unfortunately how some adults think.

[gcnphkr]

 

There are some comments regarding ticket-like requirements for NYLT. There is no such thing in the syllabus

Thank you. I stand corrected and it is good to know that this is a local change. I thought the SM, like the WBCD, had to sign in blood that he would stick to the syllabus. They syllabus does have them developing a personal vision by the end of the course. They also are to "identify at least one goal leading toward realization of that personal vision". But post course follow up in our council is an add on. Now, I have to figure out what I should do about it.

[Mafaking]

 

On the issue of you lose scouts but Woodbadge adults hang around. I am not sure I agree but so what. Nor would I solely look at it as an return on investment to the troop. We are in a training for life movement. NYLT with stay with the Scout for life.

 

A scout leaving scouting having completed NYLT is leaving with training he can use the rest of his life. For me its part of the program. Show 2-3 years of commitment, spirit, progress toward rank and that will get you a recommendation to attend NYLT.

 

None of these are perfect experiences: troop meetings, weekend campouts, volunteer work, summer camp, high adventure outings, NYLT and an Eagle project. But you give a scout an opportunity to do all these things, warts and all and a better man he will be from it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sorry I had to stop writing for a moment to take another sip of the BSA cool aide.

 

Besides a scout implementing what he learned at NYLT is much better than an adult trying to infuse the troop with what he learned at Woodbadge.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Eagle92]

No problem with disagreements, as long as they don't get unscoutlike, and this one hasn't yet. I hadn't thought about the lifetime skills learned. VERY GOOD POINT. I still sometimes look at things as if I'm with my old troop. My troop did look at BA 22, and later JLT as an investment b/c they did pay for it, and it was expected that we would continue with the troop and use what we learned to improve the troop.

 

Although I sound as an apologist for having more WB than NYLT courses, I believe like you that there should be more emphasis on youth training. I was fortunate enough to go through it, and staff it. So I knwo what can be done and how motivated most participants are once completing the course. And we are supposed to be a youth run organization.

 

Again not having gone through WB or WB21C so I'm expressing my opinion, but a SM shouldn't be trying to infuse what they learned at WB to the entire troop. Rather he's suppose to infuse the SPL and other youth leaders, with the intention that long term the youth train their successors, and the SM guiding as neeeded in the process.

[Mafaking]

 

This is such a good topic. What happens at NYLT how is the scout affected and what does it mean to the troop.

 

I believe that it is only nominally effective to send one scout to NYLT. He will come back with a language unknown to most others in the troop. A lone NYLT trained scout will have a tempered influence on the troop. There will be too much entrenched culture to over come by himself. That's why we have sent multiple scouts to NYLT the last few years. The more the better. A culture of "this is how the program is meant to work" will only be established if a proportion of the scouts have been through NYLT.

 

[AwHeck]

Denver Area Council has routinely had 5 or 6 sessions of NYLT, called Big Horn in our council. The past few years we've had 3 Wood Badge courses per year but they are far from full whereas the Big Horn courses often have waiting lists.

 

In our troop, we encourage all eligible youth to attend Big Horn and cover half the cost. We also have a requirement that a scout must have been through Big Horn prior to running for SPL and that has worked well in our troop.

[Eagle92]

I have to second the idea that you need to send 2 scouts to NYLT. In addition you need the SM to BUY INTO NYLT ideas and allow the scours to incorporate them into troop planning.

 

One thing I liked, but only seen once, was a district level TLT. The staff consisted of nothing but BS22 graduates, and they used TLT format with a little BA22 info to emphasis. It was a great weekend and wish we could have done another one.

 

But Yes a SM needs to buy into the ideas and allow the SPL to implement them .

 

 

[Lisabob]

So that raises another interesting question.

 

To my knowledge, our troop has never sent any boys to NYLT. At least in the last 5 years (since my son joined), no one has attended. There is one other boy who went as a member of a different troop.

 

Now my son is going, and he is thinking of asking the other NYLT-trained scout to be his ASPL. It would be good to have the pair of them on the same page.

 

The SM is supportive. But, because the troop has not participated in NYLT in the past (and by the way, no other adults except for me have gone through Wood Badge either), I don't really think the SM knows what he is supposed to be buying into except in the most general way.

 

Boy leadership is sometimes a struggle in the troop (like in most others). On one hand, there are many adults who just want to do it for the boys. On the other hand, many of the boys have not shown themselves to be prepared to step up and lead, and/or some are content to let the adults lead, and/or some have internalized the notion that adults will always say no to their efforts at independence. Attendance at NYLT is a good step for both sides, but it seems to me it will only have real meaning if there is a commitment to apply whatever NYLT teaches. And it is hard to commit to that when nobody really knows in advance what "it" is.

 

 

[ideadoc]

Lisabob,

I am a supporter of NYLT. I think your scouts will get positive things from it even if the Scoutmaster is not fully supportive, although the Troop will benefit more if he or she is. Some things will be useful without Scoutmaster support. For example, if a Scout becomes better at resolving conflict that will be put to use without any permission from the Scoutmaster. On the other hand, if the Scout wants to make some changes to the vision of the Troop, or try and articulate a vision if there currently isn't one, then the Scoutmaster can be a real roadblock if there is no support.

 

Since NYLT typically requires nomination of the Scout by the Scoutmaster one would think that if a Troop is sending someone there is some level of support. Admittedly the quality level of NYLT, like many things in Scouting, varies from place to place, and a poorly run NYLT can turn off Scoutmasters. A well run NYLT can convert skeptics to real supporters - I have witnessed this firsthand. Involvement in NYLT has been a very positive experience for me and if you are not happy with the course your Council is running perhaps you would want to see what you could do to help make it better.

 

In my Troop NYLT took a few years before it made a huge difference. When we only had one or two boys trained it was more difficult for them to influence the rest of the Troop, but after a couple of years there were enough boys to really make a difference. I feel fortunate to live in a Council that has an active group of supporters of NYLT that help keep a quality program going from year to year, and has a large number of amazing youth staff.

[Eagle92]

One of the things we requested from all the SMs who were sending scouts to JLT was that they 1) participate with the scout and his parents the Orientation meeting that discussed all the expectations and went over the basics of what we were doing and 2)to come the day of the feast/graduation ceremony and see what the scouts have learned in action. Those that did both usually got an idea of what the JLT course provided and did buy into it.

 

 

[BrentAllen]

Lisa,

The participants each receive a participant notebook, similar to what you received at WB. Some of it will look very familiar. The SM could sit down with the Scouts when they return and start with the notebook to see what they learned, and more importantly, how they want to apply what they learned. I asked a lot of questions on our trip back home Saturday morning, but the boys were pretty tired. They had a great week, and really came away understanding the dynamics of team building, as well as learning some new skills, games, etc.

 

We had a PLC meeting last night, and I sat at a different table and let the boys completely run the meeting. I've been teaching them how to run the meetings since we first elected an SPL back in late March, slowly handing off the responsibilities. But last night, I let them totally run the show. It wasn't a boardroom-slick production, but they got the job done. I was impressed that they recognized we only had two weeks before Summer Camp, they figured out what needed to covered for the new Scouts in that time period, and even invented a game to help reinforce the lessons. Not too bad for a bunch of 13 year olds.

 

The weirdest story to come out of the course so far was the oldest (17), biggest and strongest Scout went home after the first day. It rained pretty heavily that day, and according to the boys, it was too much for this Life Scout to handle, so he pulled the rip cord. Interestingly, this same Scout is headed to Philmont later this summer.

 

One other (sad) story - one of our PLs said he was the only one in his Patrol who could tie a bowline, which was made of up 7 Scouts, mostly Star and Life. A bowline?!?! A sad statement on our program.

 

Eagle92,

Has your Council held that Orientation lately? That is one of the requirements for the Scoutmaster's Key -

"8.Participate as an adult in youth leader training by either serving on the staff or attending the Scoutmaster orientation session of the national youth leader training conference."

 

I've asked around at our Council about that Orientation, and no one appears to have ever heard of it. They seem to think it is a National event. I would attend, if it were offered. If it has been offered lately, could you send me a contact name of someone involved in hosting it? Thanks.

[Eagle92]

Actually this was my old council. I have no idea about the current council I'm in. In fact when I asked a SM I was camping with this weekend about NYLT, he didn't know if the coucil puts it on still or not. Troop is a young troop and could use some of the stuff NYLT has to offer.

[Lisabob]

New question. The SM is unable to attend the SM portion of NYLT at the end of the week. Just how important is that part of NYLT? I have heard, variously, that it is primarily a training component for people working on the Scoutmaster's Key, and that it is a critical part of the program.

 

Should we try to get another adult from the troop to go instead? Would that even make sense? It is a bit of a drive so I don't want to twist arms and have someone haul themselves out there for what turns out to be just a dinner and some back slapping.

 

By the way - not sure what's normal - I hear that the SM portion runs about 90 minutes on Friday night, including dinner (but before the closing campfire).

 

[Eagledad]

I personally think its a waste of time to send a scout if somebody doesn't go for the adults side. Way back when, our council ask some questions of all the past scout participants and the Scoutmasters to find where the course was lacking. The number one complain from the scoutmasters was they didn't have clue what the scouts learned. The number one complaint from the scouts was the Scoutmasters didn't let them try their new skills. Our Scoutmaster course was a half day after that, and then we had the scouts sit with the Scoutmaster and discuss how they were going to work in the new skills.

 

The problem is if the SM doesn't understand the new skills and the scout doesn't explain them well, nothing really changes. Its not that the SMs are stubborn or only want to do it their way, the Scoutmaster just don't know how to support the scout on the little information that he receives. Personally I have always felt the SMs really need to attend most of the course to really get an understanding of the scouts part of the course.

 

Send a couple of adults that the scoutmaster trust and will take advice.

 

Barry