life without cell phones

[Lisabob]

In the original thread, a dad is concerned about a troop rule barring cell phones, in contradiction to the family's policy that his son have a cell phone at all times. Dad is an Eagle, by the way.

 

OGE (and several others) pointed out to the dad that: "most of use lived through the experience of youth without cell phones " Dad probably made it to Eagle without ever taking a cell phone on a camping trip.

 

While adults and youth alike may be totally wired today, the difference is that anybody above the age of about 30 probably knows what it is like to have grown up without a cell phone.

 

Not so for most of today's kids, many of whom have their own cell phones from the age of about 8. Even many of today's 20-something parents probably starting getting cell phones in their late teens, when the technology became cheaper and more wide spread.

 

I wonder. How will this constant connectivity influence the tethers that these generations place on THEIR children? At least we "old fogies" know that life without cell phone is possible.

 

 

[evmori]

Cell phones seem to be a sore subject. It seems parents want their sons to have them so in case of an emergency they will be able to contact someone, presumably the parents. What seems to happen is the boys end up texting their friends & playing games on them. Now this doesn't always happen! And is seems that mom & dad want to be able to "hover" from a distance!

 

I don't see the need for boys to have cell phones on outings. The adults usually have at least one! And that should suffice.

[nolesrule]

"most of use lived through the experience of youth without cell phones "

 

Everyone's an old fogie technology-wise sooner or later.

 

Here's a short list of technology that was not around when the BSA was chartered and is most likely taken for granted by the current generation of Scouters these days:

 

stainless steel

modern zipper

"cat eye" road reflectors

nylon

ballpoint pen

Teflon

freeze-dried coffee (for the tired/lazy Scouter)

velcro

cake mix

 

I left out all the medical advances, inventions that inspired merit badges and transportation-based technologies (after all most of us don't use a horse and buggy to get to the nearest camps).

[sandspur]

I think Lisabobs question was to ask how a generation growing up with cell phones may alter their perception of what is a normal tether to place on their youngsters.

This tendency is already evident in scouts, although it comes from many things, not just technology.

A lot of us are old enough to remember when a lot of scout activity did not include adults. I recall doing 10 and 20 mile hikes through wilderness areas for the MB requirements either solo or with one other scout my age. Pretty sure that would not be OK today (might not have been then either, but we sure did it).

So, when scouts have and use cells phones in daily life, it comes to be regarded as normal and increasingly accepted. I suspect that trend will continue. At some point, technology will give us service even in wilderness areas (cheap satellite phones?). Many folks today are dropping landlines at home and going cell only. I am considering that myself.

So, while I fully support those troops choosing to ban them for scouts, I suspect, Lisabob, that more and more they will evolve into such a universal item that in ten years we wont give it a second thought. And the next generation of parents will assume they can contact their offspring (probably with GPS coordinates if they desire) at any time.

Its a losing battle. For those that think they are winning, have you seen those ringtones of such high pitch that youngsters (20 and under) can hear them but 30 and over cant? They are out there and guess what? They work. I tried em and my wife and I couldnt hear a thing. My 13 and 18 year old heard them plain as day. Those rings may be going off under your nose and you dont know it unless you see the phone in use.

For what its worth, my advice is to emphasize courtesy. Dont answer the darn things in a meeting or disrupt a program. Goes for adults too. Ask offenders to leave the room or turn the phone off. Good training for real life. If you want to risk losing an expensive phone on a campout where it may not work anyway, that is your decision (but follow troop policy whatever it is). Ive seen scouts take expensive cameras on high adventure trips after all.

 

[nolesrule]

Courtesy is definitely the key and rules on use (but not necessary possession) are acceptable.

 

I run a small business, so I'm in a business networking group. In our weekly meetings, we have a rule that cellphones and pagers must be silenced or turned off. Of course, we have a fine system for funding chapter activities and the fines include $1 for a ringing phone or pager and $5 if you answer it. Those fines include texting. I'm not saying fines are appropriate for scouting. Just mentioning that's how we handle it in the business environment.

[nolesrule]

"I don't see the need for boys to have cell phones on outings. The adults usually have at least one! And that should suffice."

 

In the case of a need for an emergency call in the wilderness, the more phones the better. Phone/provider combinations all result in varying reception levels. Of course, if everyone has an iPhone on AT&T Wireless, it won't make a difference.

[sandspur]

Nolesrule:

Fines may work (do you have repeat offenders?). My favorite learning moment was during a staff meeting when a director took an important call in the meeting. The VP running the meeting, with a deadpan look, pulled out his cell, called the guy right across the table he had been talking to and continued the meeting that way. Message sent!

 

[nolesrule]

In our meeting, phones rarely ever ring. In the last 4 years I think there were 4 rings, 2 by visiting guests (and they don't pay fines) and 2 by the realtors in our chapter (that opening has changed over time). All 4 rings were realtors phones. It's always the realtors.

 

 

Anyway, the point is keep the phone off. You'll still get your voice mails and texts, and you can check them at the appropriate time. The same applies to scouts on outings. In the case of scouting, it becomes another learning/teaching opportunity rather than just another in the long list of "thou shalt nots" that adults like to throw around.(This message has been edited by nolesrule)

[sandspur]

Nolesrule:

I agree totally. If we ban phones, I suspect we have taught nothing about how the scout should act in life outside the troop.

If we say, sure you can have a phone but use it properly and with courtesy, then we generate teaching moments. When a scouts phone goes off during a meeting, the SPL can stop the meeting and ask the offender to turn his phone off or go outside. As all the other scouts turn and look, embarrassment sets in. That will have more effect on a teenager than any set of rules. I bet every phone in the troop is off or on vibrate after one or two incidents like that. The adults must play be the same rules!

 

[scoutldr]

It's not about the phones. It's about manners. When did teaching proper manners cease to be a parental responsibility? Of course, they can't teach what they don't know. We've become a society of narcissists. I'll do what I want and to heck with everybody else. Sad. Really sad.

[Stosh]

I guess I don't see it as an issue of manners. It's an issues of responsibility. If a boy is carrying a cell phone for emergencies does this mean that the parents can't trust the adult leadership on the trip to do their jobs? When I have a group of boys with me it is my responsibility to insure their safety regardless of whether or not I carry a cell phone. If there is an emergency, is the leadership only there for backup? It speaks volumes as to how much that leadership can be trusted to do what is expected of them. Cell phone "courtesy" is nothing more than a smoke screen for lack of trust in the leadership of the troop.

 

How do families with cell phone policies deal with school and church?

 

I'm trying my best not to be judgmental in my comments but I think it's important to carry the thought process forward as far as possible and seek compromise on thoughtout issues on both sides.

 

Yes, there are things one can do to develop responsible youth. My daughters never went off on a date without me first meeting the boy (even if it was at the door, but my daughters all learned quickly to do a meet and greet prior to the date and not rely on first impressions) and even then if it was a "nice boy" my daughters still carried their driver's license and cab fare in case they had to return home on their own. They had cell phones, but it wasn't required, they were taught to think on their feet and do the right thing.

 

Stosh

[Narraticong]

I for one, expect my kids to have their cell phone with them at all times. Including church and school. And no I don't hover one bit.

 

Cell phones are wonderful technology. I personally have no idea how to work much of my rather simple cell phone. I rarely use it. I rarely need my first aid kit, either. But I am glad it is handy. It is a tool, no more, no less.

 

My son had his confiscated one day in middle school because he had forgotton to put it on vibrate. It was a wrong number call, not a friend. I had to go to the office to retrieve it and received a lecture from the secretary on how students are not allowed to have phones. I reminded her there had been a gun incident at our normally safe High School, two blocks away, earlier that week. Potential danger is always lurking. She referred me to the Assistant Principal who reiterated the "no phones" policy. I asked him if the School District was prepared to go to court to defend that policy. It seems the near victim of the gun incident had used his cell phone to get out of the attempted gunpoint robbery. What might have happened if the student had (against his own will) obeyed the no phone policy?

 

I, too, lived a long time without a cell phone and rarely use mine. But it is a useful tool. It's all about responsibility.

[sandspur]

Jblake:

I gently disagree. Cell phones are allowed in our troop, with appropriate controls (off or on vibrate during meeting etc) but If my son chooses to carry his it in no way reflects on my confidence in the SM or leadership. In fact, it is my sons decision on whether or not to carry his phone, and on campouts he chooses to leave it at home (so as not to get lost or damaged and he is likely out of range anyway).

It is just a tool, a device. If it is used with courtesy and respect for others, all the objections I have seen seem moot. If it is not thus used, courtesy and respect need to be taught.

If some parents are over protective, that problem would exist even without the phone.

 

[Lisabob]

Sandspur wrote: "I think Lisabobs question was to ask how a generation growing up with cell phones may alter their perception of what is a normal tether to place on their youngsters. "

 

Yes that was exactly what I was trying to ask. You stated it far better than I did. Thank you.

 

As for your conclusions, I also agree that this is a losing battle, but it worries me. 20 years ago, kids of my generation roamed the neighborhood in the evening, playing until dark, without our parents being any the wiser about our whereabouts. Yes, in some isolated cases, bad things happened or kids got into mischief. We also learned a lot about how to conduct ourselves and who we were. But that started changing during my late childhood after a few stories of horrendous kidnappings and crimes and the invention of the 24 hour cable news cycle, which played those stories over and over and over again in order to fill the airwaves with "news." I'm not saying those stories weren't true, but for a while, it seemed like the boogy man was lurking around every corner and behind every tree. A child in California was harmed, and in NY where I was living, parents (attempted to) shut their kids indoors for weeks - literally. The up-shot of this constant publicity to sensational (and rare) crimes is that today, parents are afraid to let their children out of their sights.

 

These days I teach on a large public university campus. Many of the first year students are away from home for the very first time in their lives. Partly because they've been so guarded and protected as children, many of them lack what I'd have considered to be common sense and basic life skills. Stuff we developed at age 10 in the neighborhood, they don't have at age 18 in the dorm. Consequences are often far worse for many more of them, than was the case for the occasional ordinary-level mischief that happened among 10 year olds playing in people's back yards on a summer evening.

 

What happens then, is that parents want more university controls and eyes watching out for their little darlings (at age 18, 19, 20, and up). "In loco parentis" is a commonly repeated phrase on many college campuses.

 

Same thing with cell phones. I do not think they're awful. I don't mind so much if a kid has one. I mind a lot when anybody uses it inappropriately (and adults are often worse culprits, maybe because they were not socialized to proper cell phone etiquette until later on in life, or maybe because adults fall into the habit of thinking everything they do is "important!").

 

But the bigger issue with phones isn't courtesy or trust. To me, it is at least partly a question of developing an identity and a sense of self-confidence. Can you be "you" when the phone is off? Do you even know who "you" are, or are you so constantly wired in to others that you have no opportunity to develop your sense of independent identity, or to develop coping mechanisms for when things go wrong and you can't just call someone? And what sort of shallow consciousness does that lead to, and what are the net effects on an already fearful and garrisoned society?

 

It probably IS a losing battle. And maybe "battle" isn't even the right frame for what I was trying to get at anyway. But it really does worry me that very soon, we'll have a whole new generation of parents for whom constant connection to everybody is a given, and who cannot imagine giving their children the freedom to develop themselves without that connection. What new limits will be common place in the lives of children 10 years from now, as a direct result?

[scoutldr]

Thanks for refocusing us, Lisa. Those are exactly my fears and observations, too. I think this is manifested in the phenomenon we see now...what I call "failure to launch"...after the movie. Kids today are going into their 30's and even 40 without really having "left home" either figuratively or literally. And it's not all about the economy, either. I started my adult married life during the infamous Carter years, and seem to have survived. Kids today are getting older, but they aren't "maturing" in thought or ability. (I know it's generalizations, but that's what we're doing here.) They can't go to college and select courses or decide what to write about without texting mom. I work with a mom here who has her sophomore son e-mail her all his papers from college, whereupon she edits them and "fixes" them, so he doesn't get a bad grade. Sorry, but in my day, that was called "cheating". Another co-worker just picked out a new car (and did the negotiating) for his 27 year old to buy (I suspect he also gave him the money). That same co-worker is actively looking at houses for his 31 year old daughter to buy (for which he will supply the down payment and co-sign the loan). (Can you hear the thup, thup, thup of the helicopters in the background?). He also told me he just paid off her credit card, because he found out she was (get this) PAYING INTEREST! So now she can start all over with a clean slate. Sheesh.

 

My favorite quote, "I don't think that 60 is the new 40...but I do think 20 is the new 10!" (sorry, no source)