Cell Phone Policy Contradicts Family Policy

[Engineer61]

Hi Tom,

 

I'm probably the only one on the forum that has no problem whatsoever with Scouts having a phone in their backpack.

 

I am confident that I am the minority.

 

Invariably, the Troop returns 1 to 1 1/2 hours early or late...the adult's get torqued at us if we aren't there to meet them ... my reply last time was, "...then don't leave a message on the first number you're given ... call them all!"

 

Of course, it would not be a problem if Scout had his phone...he'd simply do it himself...

 

Good luck with striking a compromise....but you likely won't get one.

[perdidochas]

Our troop has no electronics at camp as the general rule. On longer drives, scouts are allowed to use electronics on the drive to and from. That said, I've seen several phones in open backpacks/first aid kids, etc. Never have I seen them come out on a campout except on the ride home (calling parents). I guess our program is interesting enough that the temptation hasn't overcome them yet. The scouts that I saw with phones were fairly old (16 or 17), and I guess they had mastered discretion. That said, I think camping is a good time to be cell free, personally. If I weren't married, I'd leave it in the car.

[TAHAWK]

I see a lot of posts about adults making rules. Example: "Yes, a cell phone can be useful (as neil just stated), but so can fixed blade knives, liquid fuel stoves, or any of the other things Troops restrict the use of, because they aren't necessary, and their usefullness [as in original] is outweighed by the issues they cause."

 

This business of adults-banning things raises two issues to me.

 

First, should adults be making rules based on their personal antipathy to certain legally-possessed objects? "It's my troop." Oh, really? It's not the Scouts' troop? The CO's troop? The adults are the PLC? The SM is the PLC?

 

Second, if things cause "issues," that's why we're there. To teach Scouts how to deal with issues, not to make our life easier. Trust should be the basis for all our moral training. (BP) Zero-tolerance rules are zero-use-of-judgment rules -- not too useful in teaching Scouts to make good choices.

 

 

And you just had to mention bans on fixed-blade knives. ^___^

 

Bans on fixed-blades knives seem clearly contrary to this statement on BSA policy from G2SS: "We believe we have a duty to instill in our members, youth and adult, the knowledge of how to use, handle, and store legally owned knives with the highest concern for safety and responsibility."

 

Fixed-blade knives are legal to own in all fifty states. There may be restrictions on carrying them, but not restrictions based on where the knife can be folded or not.

 

How do we meet our "duty" to teach Scouts "the knowledge of how to use, handle, and store" fixed-blade knives if they are prohibited?

 

AND:

 

Many folding knives are optimized as weapons and have longer blades than many fixed-blade knives that are optimized as tools.

 

Homes routinely have a drawer containing fixed-blade knives, so our Scouts will encounter them.

 

Fixed-blade knives re safer to use for most food preparation than most folding knives.

 

Fixed-blade knives are routinely used by Council camps for fishing and wood-carving.

 

BSA sells fixed-blade knives (and liquid-fuel stoves - and fixed-blade axes).

 

For wilderness survival work, BSA literature suggests use of bolos and khukuris - notably large knives or small swords (Perhaps bolos and khukuris fall under the the "Sword Exception" to the "large sheath knife admonition since they are carried in scabbards rather than sheaths. Scottish Scouting seems to have a "Claymore Exception.").

 

I respectfully suggest that there is simply not much logical consistency involved, much less concern about what the Patrol Method tries to teach about the proper role of adults or concern about BSA policy. This is adult personal preference at work.

 

Oh, I don't own a cell phone. Hate 'em.

[acco40]

For those who feel that a Scout should have access to their cell phone during a scouting event, do you feel the same way about your son's phone usage at school? If not, why not?

[Eamonn]

" has National ever come out and said that cell phones are to be discouraged or prohibited on Scouting events?

At both the 2001 and 2005 National Jamborees, national strongly discouraged cell phones.

At the last National Jamboree they set up areas where Scouts could recharge their phones.

The Times they are a changing!

 

"For those who feel that a Scout should have access to their cell phone during a scouting event, do you feel the same way about your son's phone usage at school? If not, why not?

OJ's Troop never had a rule about cell phones.

His HS had a rule which back in the dark ages when it was thought that only drug dealers needed cell phones and pagers was strongly enforced. Over time even though the rule was in place it was let go and only used when there was a problem.

I bought OJ his first cell phone. It was about the time when HWMBO became ill.

I took family leave from work, but of course wasn't able to be home all the time.

His teachers were aware of this and were very understanding.

 

Ea.

(This message has been edited by Eamonn)

[qwazse]

scouts does not equal school

 

Our school bans pen knives. Our troop does not.

 

We gave up on our cell phone ban. There are more important things to enforce. (Such as fireworks, swords, sidearms, pipe bombs, etc ...)

 

If you want Jr. to have a cell phone, fine. But in my family, the youngns' pay for their plan. I strongly encourage our other scout families to do likewise.

[fred8033]

Okay. I apologize in advance for taking this beyond the original "cell phone policy contradicts family policy" topic....

 

I always wonder how many youth are driven out of scouting by arbitrary rules created from the attitudes of adult leaders.

 

At least at the local unit level, the scout has the option and time to find another troop. My eldest son had no such option when attended the 2013 national jamboree. He was put under such gung-ho, starch-and-iron-the-underwear leaders that it ruined the NJ for him and he's still trying to decide if he wants to be part of scouting. They were creating arbitrary rules left and right. He's a hard worker and never had trouble under our 19+ year scoutmaster. But at the jamboree, he, like half his jamboree troop .... ASPL and PLs included, was threatened with one-more-incident and you go home.

 

Too many leaders think the Scout Law "obedient" is a synonym for "passive" and "submissive". It's not! It's about doing what's right including fighting for your own dignity and rights.

 

It gets down to what type of men are we trying to create from these scouts? Spineless followers or men with character and a backbone. What type of leaders are we trying to create? Prison guard leaders that beat down their charges with arbitrary rules or men that people want to follow through their example and capabilities.

 

As for cell phones and other similar rules... if the state does not outlaw it ... if BSA does not ban it... if the camp does not list it... why create yet another rule? Use it as a teaching opportunity and not as a criminal incident. We're trying to build up these kids, not beat them down.

 

And no.... I won't send my kid to another national jamboree unless I personally know the leaders and have seen them in action. I'll suggest they save their money for high adventures like Sea Base, Philmont, BWCA, backpacking trips or other grand adventures. Or even The Summit not during a jamboree. Really sad, but it was a waste of money paid for a really bad experience.

 

[Engineer61]

"For those who feel that a Scout should have access to their cell phone during a scouting event, do you feel the same way about your son's phone usage at school? If not, why not? "

 

Yes. My kids carry their cell phones in their backpacks to school.

 

This is in concert with the school's policy. They can have them in school, but not use them in class.

 

They have them for urgent and emergency situations.

 

 

[Eamonn]

"Prison guard leaders that beat down their charges with arbitrary rules"

And you know this how?

Ea.

 

 

[Scoutfish]

My point of view is this: Take the phone if you want, but if you use it, it had better be an emergency on the part of the person on either side of the phone.

 

And just like it is during school or football or baseball practice: The teachers and coaches will not let you use it or have it out during the activity you are supposed to be doing.

 

Same could be said of chucrh or a movie, etc... Have it with you - just in case. But until that "just in case" happens, leave it in your tent, your pack or your pocket.

 

This is also a great time to point out conserving battery power for the chance that something does happen.

 

 

But here's another side of things: Although Scouts is not the same as Navy Seal or Special Ops survival school....it is about becoming self sufficent on your own in things like compass and map reading and finding your way.

 

I can't remember the movie or show I saw way back when...about a futuristic society that was so dependant on electronics and machinery that they could NOT live without them,. And one day, a big glitch happened. All the machines, scanners, tv's, phones, ....everything shut down. Dr's were actually just assistants to computers, so now Dr';s couldn't even set a simple fracture. Dentists couldn't do anything to teeth. Cops didn't know what to do with people. People couldn't add anything higher than the sum of 100.

 

In te ned, the underground society that had been shunned and who never had the luxery of depending on machines ended up being the survivors.

 

Yeah, BSA and scouting isn't that extreme...but you see where I am going?

 

Do we want our kids to just be good at what is in style and available, or do we want them to be truely self sufficent ...enough to survive without ba cell phone, vcr or cable tv box.

 

Hey, they might even have to learn to cook without a microwave one day.

 

I'm just saying, if a scout cannot put the phone down for one day ( except a true emergency) then maybe he just doesn't need to be in the woods afterall.

[acco40]

Phones today can take pictures, access the world wide web, send text messages, receive email and even make phone calls!

 

Many folks, youth and adults, don't practice good phone etiquette. I've seen "crackberry" users syndrome at work - folks who can't put down their phone during a meeting. And we wonder why ADD is rampant?

 

In Scouts we can take the "easy" way out and ban the devices or put in a little bit more effort as leaders and teach the boys proper usage. The problem, there's a boat load of Scouters that set a real bad example and the boys have an excellent hypocrisy meter!

[Old_OX_Eagle83]

Tombitt, your intent is good, but youre not seeing the whole picture. Let me ask you this: Is your son allowed to have is cell phone in school; in his classes at school? Is your son allowed to bring his phone into church? Heck, is he even allowed to have it on in a movie theater? There are times and places for everything, and camp is no place for a cell phone. The homesick scout example above is a good one. There is an obvious distraction factor, and a less obvious issue undermining authority with mom and dad one button away man that would make youth leading anything a major headache. In as far as safety, Im sure the adult leaders have communication covered, and should they all be struck down in a freak accident, the scouts can use the phones the adults are carrying

 

There is also the issue of high dollar electronics getting lost, or destroyed. Besides, these young men need to swith off, disconnect, and slow down, now and again. Where better to get off the grid then at camp?

 

[Beavah]

Yah, hard to imagine this thread still goin' on.

 

There's perhaps one additional thing to consider, eh? In dealin' with new folks, especially new young kids, it's often best to establish a firm and clear position from which you then can make exceptions or teach judgment. We start with "don't cross the street" and then move up to "don't cross our street without looking both ways, but don't cross Major Thoroughfare." Then "well, you can cross Major Thoroughfare, but only at a crosswalk and following the light, provided you still look both ways." And then of course all of us adults at one time or another have jaywalked.

 

None of that makes it bad to say "no" to the novice, eh? "No cell phones/electronics on campouts" establishes a baseline expectation for new scouts and new families. I was just out at an event this past weekend where a first year Boy Scout borrowed/stole an older lad's cell phone to text dad not 5 minutes after arrival. I think it was to complain about some other 11 year old. Sayin' "no" at the start avoids all that stuff until yeh have the time to teach proper use down the road. Lots of troops do the same for knives and fire and stoves and such. After all, there's plenty for a young lad to learn from buddy system to how to light a stove safely without addin' cell phone etiquette right from the start.

 

Beavah

 

[OwntheNight]

Is your son allowed to have is cell phone in school; in his classes at school? Is your son allowed to bring his phone into church? Heck, is he even allowed to have it on in a movie theater? There are times and places for everything,and camp is no place for a cell phone.

Actually, Yes. My son can take his phone,laptop or an ipad into school an connect to the school's network. I walk into the school, and my phone immediatly asks me if l would like to connect to one of the school's networks as a guest or a student. The school district has implemented a forward thinking approach to technology. Texting and voice conversations are not allowed during school hours. The students may use the network for research and studies, all in an attempt to go paperless and put more information in the student's hands. Teacher's plans are online and available all the time. The students also know that if they are caught texting or talking on the phone, the phone is confiscated and Mom or Dad have to come get it. They also know the school can shut down the network, and take the tool away from everybody due to misuse. Abuse is down throughout the school. If you tell them they can't do something, they're going to do it anyway. If you tell them they can do something, there's not a sense of getting away with something wrong.

In church, I use my Bible app to pull up scripture, while on the church wireless network. Of course I could pull up the pastors sermon from his podcast which is updated on Tuesday mornings.

I agree that camp outs are not the place for phones, but we tell our boys you can bring them, but they better be left in their pack. The only boys that are allowed to carry phones around are the SPL and the ASPL's. It's their responsibilty to set the proper example for the rest of the troop. In a year and a half with the troop, I've only seen 1 ASPL have his phone out and actively using it during a camp activity, and that was for an exercise for Emergency Preparedness. He was the "Missing Scout" and was texting info about his location. Sounds like High Tech Hide and Seek to me, I digress.

We all talk about growing up without cell phones and doing just fine. Look at their side of things for a moment:

You knew who the bad seeds were in school, and knew to avoid them. If you had a dispute with somebody, you handled it the mature way. "Bike Rack 3:00, BE THERE!!!"

After Columbine and VA Tech, that's what these kids know. They have their phones with them all the time.That phone is their entire social existence. It is a different culture, I know I can't carry on 4 or 5 conversations at the same time, I've seen these kids do that without blinking an eye.

Growing up, I was taught to keep my wallet with me all the time, now something doesn't feel right against my right cheek if my wallet's not there. Same thing with the phone for kids. It's what they've grown up with. Social networking is their communication tool. We can't stop it, only hope to contain it. Even then, kids verbal and writing skills are diminishing, so in that sense, it's good to get them out and communicating on a human level. Not a digital one.

Years from now when history books are written about this time, it will be labeled the internet age. It was just 15 yrs ago that we were exclusively using 56k dial up service.We can't just bury our heads and just hope blanket rules will fix the problem. We have to be adaptable, or at the least, a half step behind them so we know what to expect, 'cause they will run away from us if we don't try and keep up. That's what I got out of the OP.(This message has been edited by OwnTheNight)

[packsaddle]

I still have an acoustic coupler and a 300 baud modem, and an old computer with a serial port...you never know when you'll need something...Be Prepared.

That said, it's sad to watch these junkies fumbling, bewildered, completely lost...when I take them to places where for weeks at a time there is no cell phone, television, internet. Did I say 'sad'? Oops, I meant 'GLORIOUS'!!!

 

Edited to add: By 'glorious' I mean that it is good to see them refocus on other things like the different life forms surrounding them deep in a tropical gorge, or on how to build an experimental apparatus given minimal materials. It is glorious to watch them using their minds in truly creative ways - and enjoying it. By the end they know they can kick the technology if they have to. But as soon as we land in San Juan, the phones turn on again. Oh well....(This message has been edited by packsaddle)