Cell Phone Policy Contradicts Family Policy

[nolesrule]

"Part of the annoyance factor of (badly managed) cell phone use is that it is, or at least can be, constant."

 

But isn't that exactly the teaching opportunity? Teach well-managed cellphone use within context. Have the youth develop a plan for use of communications tools at meetings and during activities, and encourage the PLC to enforce it. Seems that an outright ban is just the lazy way of dealing with badly managed cellphone use. The boys learn nothing.

[Lisabob]

Sure, I'd buy that approach. I was just pointing out why I didn't think mmhardy's comparisons were apt.

 

Anyway, as far as I can tell, the original poster's problem stems not only from the policy itself, but also with how it is enforced, and perhaps with identifying the extent to which parents ought to support the judgment and preferences (in fairly minor issues) of people who volunteer to give up a lot of their free time to take other folks' kids camping.

[evmori]

So how does banning cell phones accomplish the Purpose, Mission and Vision of the BSA?

 

The BSA bans things like paintball, laser tag, organized football, etc. How is that is keeping with the Purpose, Mission and Vision of the BSA?

 

Not allowing cell phones doesn't hinder a youth form the opportunity to make ethical choices. They have the choice to follow the rule created by the unit or not follow the rule created by the unit. What if the BSA banned cell phones for youth members like they ban other things? Would we still be having the same discussion?

[scoutldr]

Apples and oranges, Ed. The BSA only bans things as a CYA maneuver.."risk management". They probably won't ban cellphones, because then the first time there's an incident and no cell phone was available, the BSA has deep pockets.

[Beavah]

If scouting tells a 14-year old (or older) young man that they can't trust him with a cell phone, period, that's a shame.

 

Yah, but there's other ways of lookin' at it, eh?

 

If a 14 year old brings a piece of inappropriate gear on an outin', that's a shame. An adult telling him it's inappropriate is just doin' his job, whether it's a watermelon in his backpack because his mom wants him to have fruit while he's on the trail, or a cell phone.

 

Like others, I'm still stuck on "Who in the world is he goin' to call?"

 

And I'm not sure how you're goin' to justify a 14 year old bein' allowed but a 13 year old not. But that's somethin' yeh can worry about someday if some organization decides that you're da best candidate for an available Scoutmaster position. Then yeh can have da joy and pleasure of dealing with all "those" parents who quibble with your rules or tell their sons it's OK to disobey the SM. You'll love dealin' with that, I promise!

 

Until then, don't be one of "those" parents, eh? That way, yeh might actually be worthy of someday being an Assistant Scoutmaster at least.

 

B

 

[BrentAllen]

These electronic devises aren't just cell phones today. You have iphones and blackberry's that have internet access. I've already run into problems with other parents who give unlimited internet access to their kids because they trust them. After a birthday sleep-over, we learned what kind of web sites those kids were visiting. Needless to say, many of us never let our sons spend the night there again.

 

So, now we are going to let kids have unlimited internet access in their tents at night while on campouts. Sorry, not in my Troop. As SM, I'm not going to have to deal with the situation where a 15 year-old decides to show an 11 year-old some inappropriate web sites. I know how I would feel as the parent of that 11 year-old, so Scouts can either leave the electronics at home, or stay home.

 

And if that sounds too preposterous to you, I've had Scouters tell me they had Scouts calling 900 numbers on their cell phones while on camping trips. I'm just not going to deal with the issue. We go camping to get out in nature and enjoy God's creation.

[mmhardy]

We can go round and round about this all the live long day.

 

Tombitt, Sense there is no BSA policy, I would bring the topic up at your next troop committee meeting. If there is a parent consensus that allows the possession off cell phones then see if the topic can be brought up at the next PLC. Put it in the hands of boys. Let them put limits and bounds to it.

 

A SM ban indicates to me that issue has never been examined or the unit is not Boy led. Perhaps a deeper look at how your unit is run is in order. If the boys decide to ban the use so be it.

 

[gwd-scouter]

So many posts with very good justifications for a no cell phone policy on campouts. Also good posts about teaching responsibility and such. Problem I have is that we can teach responsible use all we want as leaders - one hour a week, one weekend a month. But, that does nothing against the parents who don't back it up.

 

As a SM, I have a very real problem with parents who decide that 'rules' don't apply to their son. What kind of lesson in responsibility is that teaching? Honestly, I would rather the parent pull their son from our Troop than have them telling him he can just ignore something I, or his patrol leader, or the PLC have said or asked. Yes, yes, those parents can tell their son all they want that, for instance, the no electronics policy is ridiculous and they know delightful Johnny Scout would never abuse the privilege. But, what about the next thing his patrol leader or the Scoutmaster asks? Can he just ignore that, too?

 

Yep, I've met a lot of parents who would say that "their" son is very responsible, mature for his age, yada yada yada. Genuine surprise or outright denial when I suggest after we get home that we had some difficulty with the boy on the campout. I would say we don't have any arbitrary rules and we don't suddenly impose one because of a one-time incident or a knee jerk reaction to something that happened on a trip. I know there are folks here that would say that a Troop shouldn't have any rules at all other than living up to the Scout Oath and Law. OK, I'll buy that. No electronics in our Troop springs mostly from a scout being courteous. Almost all the boys have phones and none have them have been taught its courteous use. So, we try. If your SM asks that the scouts do not bring cell phones, how are you helping your scout to be trustworthy if you tell your son it's OK to ignore that request?

 

A recent example of parents deciding what it best for their son. We make is clearly known to the boys and their parents that the boys are not to bring candy, soft drinks and other snacks on a campout. The boys plan their menus and that's what there is to eat and drink. Adults follow the same. This past weekend we had a scout very sick on Saturday morning. After his trip to the emergency room and a vague diagnosis of perhaps a stomach bug, over exertion, dehydration, his parents collect him and take him home. Back at camp we gather up his things. In his backpack was a bag - a big bag - of skittles, crackers, chips, sugary fruit drinks, slim jims. Turns out his tent mate tells us that the boy ate a pretty large quantity of that stuff before he went to sleep. After thinking about it, I remember that same scout having some stomach issues in the morning on our last campout.

 

Sometimes scout leaders create rules just to make their lives easier. A blanket policy may not seem fair to you because you think your son is responsible enough to use his phone wisely and courteously. Imagine the SM that has to decide among 30 or 40 scouts who is responsible, who isn't, who will make calls home that alarm parents, who will surf the internet at 3 in the morning, etc. etc.

[HobcawChaos]

Our troop has a similar policy. Cellphones are allowed at meetings but need to be off or on vibrate. Cellphones are kept at home for campouts and other events. They are a distraction and I hadn't even thought about the web surfing. Many places we go in the NC mountains have terrible coverage so then they are just dead weight to get lost and/or broken. In the car, just relax and interact with your fellow scouts. It amazes me how the concept of a short, say 1 hr, car trip can be horrifying without an ipod, Gameboy, DVD, etc. But once turned off the conversations get really funny and the singing really bad. A favorite memory is cruising down the dirt road to camp in the truck, splashing big rooster tails from the puddles left by recent storm, steam rising from the forest floor, radio blasting, girls singing at the top of their lungs. Yes, it felt a little wild and crazy to them. 'Course maybe we should have rolled up the windows and sat quietly watching a DVD or listening to iPods.

[BrentAllen]

mmhardy,

Perhaps a review of the SM Handbook is in order. The SM attends the PLC and has veto power. Program is the SM's responsibility. The boys lead the Troop, under the supervision of the SM.

[scoutldr]

"But this violates my family's policy!!!"

 

By Lauren Roth

The Virginian-Pilot

May 19, 2009

VIRGINIA BEACH

 

Middle school students in the public schools are not allowed to carry or use cell phones. That could change if the board adopts a proposed policy change tonight.

 

Under the proposed changes, middle school students would be allowed to use cell phones before and after school, which is the current policy for high school students.

 

The repercussions for violations by middle schoolers would be slightly less severe than in high schools. Elementary students would still be banned from using or carrying cell phones. The policy change would also specify that students who carry cell phones in school are consenting to searches of the phones contents when reasonable suspicion exists.

 

Times do change, said School Board chairman Dan Edwards, and many parents expect to be able to reach their middle school students on cell phones before and after school.

 

The meeting will be held at 6:15 p.m. at the School Administration Building.

 

[evmori]

Apples and oranges, Ed. The BSA only bans things as a CYA maneuver.."risk management".

 

Not so different! Sure for different reasons but a ban none the less!

[SMT224]

Last year at summer camp, one of our new Scouts was given a cell phone by mom & dad - so he could call or text them if he missed them. None of the adult leaders knew he had a cell phone, as he kept it in his tent. He was very homesick and did not have a good camp experience. Apparently his parents had intended him to check in once or twice a day with the cell phone, but what happened was that he staying up until 2 or 3 in the morning sending a steam of text messages home... which were dutifully answered by mom (a big part of the problem!). I did not even know this was going on until Mom picked him up and told me. No wonder he sometimes seemed tired and unhappy during the day. Lack of sleep no doubt compounded his homesickness. Plus the constant contact with the parents delayed him getting over the hump of homesickness and finding he can be ok and even happy without mom and dad. He dropped out of the Troop a few months later, saying he'd rather play sports.

 

This year I'm going to be very clear with the parents that cell phone will not be needed at camp and constant communication with home is not the best way to overcome homesickness. But, as others have said, if the parents decide that little Johnny needs a cell phone to call home, there's not much I can do about it - I'm not going to search them and their bags!

 

I agree that banning will not work - if they feel compelled to bring a cell phone, it's easy enough to toss one in a pocket or pack. Far better to teach how and when to use. And to have the Scouts set the rules. This is be something we will be discussing at the next PLC.

[RememberSchiff]

Agree that cellphone and gps units are new tools that we need to teach proper use as mentioned in the Wilderness Survival mb book. I like the Electronic Chip idea. We do not allow scouts to bring knives if they do not have a Totin' Chip card, the same could apply to cellphones.

 

As I stated earlier, my unit has not had a problem with scouts carrying cellphones maybe that is because patrols have carried walkie-talkies for years and it was a natural transition or maybe it is our New Parent Orientation. Anyway when cellphones came along, parents wanted their sons to carry them. So far, no problems. If scouts were dumb enough to call 900 numbers etc, well those devices have electronic trails and parents pay the bills. No leaders have felt a lack of trust. As a trek leader, I welcome more phones in hopes of having one that works when needed.

 

my $0.02

 

[mmhardy]

 

BrentAllen,

 

That absolute power of the veto was in the 1st edition of the SM handbook. I do not have the current version. In my training and experience its been refined a bit, with caveats on that veto.

 

The Scoutmaster and Troop committee retain veto power over decisions made by the PLC, but need to use in only on the occasion when plans of the PLC would violate BSA policy or could lead to a situation that might jeopardize the safety of Troop members.

 

In other words a SM should not veto a PLC decision on a whim, preference or convenience.

 

However I found that the USSSP web site a similar concern pointed to a BSA booklet titled TROOP COMMITTEE GUIDEBOOK, it is clearly stated (the italics are in the book!): "The Patrol Leader's Council, not the adult leaders, is responsible for planning and conducting the Troop's activities." The book further states that, when the PLC submits its plan to the Troop Committee (through the SM), the Troop Committee "approves the plan or makes alternative suggestions for the PLC to consider". Notice that is absolutely does NOT say that the Troop Committee can "reject" or "veto" a plan; only that it can offer suggestions.

 

As usual there are conflicts of policies within the BSA. I supposed if there wasnt then there would not be a need for this forum.