Cell Phone Policy Contradicts Family Policy

[evmori]

If the attitudes on this thread are prevalent then the world is passing the BSA by. Its core values and role in our society will be lost as its further marginalized by small issues like this.

 

I love technology. I use it every day! I love how it has advanced!

 

But there is a time & place for it! And on a camping trip, the need is minimal!

[sandspur]

Wow, a hot topic indeed.

However, I disagree with the posters that think courtesy is not the issue. It is the main issue for me.

Cell phones are ubiquitous. The lads do have them. If a troop bans them (as you have the right to do) I feel the scouts learn nothing about how to handle this technology on a daily basis. They will have them in church, at the job, in meetings, during shows, the list goes on. Did we help them to learn courtesy and respect for others by banning cells at scouts?

Now, if we said you can have them, but turn them off or keep them on vibrate during meetings and if we enforce that? If the SPL stopped the meeting when a cell phone rang and asked the offender to step outside or turn it off and only resume the meeting when that had been done? I find embarrassment is a fine teacher for teens. By the way, the policy should hold for the adults as well and the SM or ASM should not hesitate to enforce the same policy on adults during the meetings. Now, I think we have taught something!

Anyway, follow troop policy whatever it is!

 

[mmhardy]

Purpose - The purpose of the Boy Scouts of America, incorporated on February 8, 1910, and chartered by Congress in 1916, is to provide an educational program for boys and young adults to build character, to train in the responsibilities of participating citizenship, and to develop personal fitness.

 

Mission - The mission of the Boy Scouts of America is to prepare young people to make ethical and moral choices over their lifetimes by instilling in them the values of the Scout Oath and Law.

 

Vision - The Boy Scouts of America will prepare every eligible youth in America to become a responsible, participating citizen and leader who is guided by the Scout Oath and Law.

 

So how does banning cell phones accomplish the Purpose, Mission and Vision of the BSA?

[tombitt]

This is really helping me nail down my own position - and I'm less concerned right now with my son's experience than with BSA policy in general.

 

Scouting teaches character, responsibility, self-reliance in today's world - not just the great outdoors. Scouting is involved in all aspects of a young scout's character development. There's no reason to exclude something like responsible use of technology.

 

The easy thing for scouting to do is exclude things like cell phones, Internet access, etc., etc. The harder thing is to find an effective way to integrate what is already a part of the scout's life into their scouting experience in a way that teaches character and responsibility.

 

Cell phones are a tool, just like a knife, to be used responsibly. We allow the scouts to learn and earn the right to use a knife - a privilege that can be taken away. Likewise, I would like scouts to have the same with a cell phone. For camping, it can be a tool to take a picture, find out about the weather, get a map, locate another scout, or call for help. If abused, it can be taken away. I don't like a system that says "I will never trust you". I prefer "here is the responsible way, keep earning my trust".

 

I really, really like Scoutldr's suggestion of an Electronics Totin' Chip. Earn it first, have a policy on responsible use, abuse it and lose it.

 

My concern right now is that Scouting has no policy here - the policy is being set strictly by Scoutmasters. Nothing against giving Scoutmasters some autonomy, but we can see on this thread that the policies are radically different in every troop. I've seen it at scout camp. Recently, they had a musical group play at a campfire. Afterward, about half the scouts raised their cell phones with the lights on looking like lighters. The other half of the scouts wondered why some were allowed cell phones, and some weren't. Inconsistent. We can do a little better.

 

By the way, I believe that the 2010 National Jamboree is working with AT&T to ensure good cell coverage - for the scouts! Should be interesting to see some scouts coming in to a Jamboree with a "no tolerance" policy in their troops, some coming in with no restrictions and nothing keeping them from constantly texting mom and girlfriend, and some coming in using the phone responsibly. Can't we make more of the latter?

[Stosh]

If a boy loses his Totin' Chit for improper use of his knife, he can still stay at an event, but without knife. If a boy loses his Electronics Chit for improper use of his cell phone, he has to return home immediately because he'll be breaking his family's rule.

 

Sounds like a Catch-22 to me. If he doesn't have an Electonics Chit he can't go on any scout activities until he retakes the training?

 

Sounds like a tough issue to deal with. Sounds a wee bit like over involvement in the boy's maturation process on the part of the parents. Albeit their responsibility, one could be losing a lot of scouts under these terms. Either/Or decision here has nothing to do with the cell phone, but between policies of the parents and the troop. Parents' policies always trump troop policies, but one is going to lose a lot of scouts in the process. One has to be prepared to accept this reality.

 

A possible solution/exception might be for an adult to have the boy's cell phone in case the parents need to contact him and/or the boy needs to contact his parents. I know this places a heavier responsibility on the leadership of the troop, but it may allow for come compromise on both parties.

 

Stosh(This message has been edited by jblake47)

[BrentAllen]

My son is attending NYLT next week, and they have the "no electronics" policy. I have no problem with it, as that is our Troop policy as well.

 

A local Troop was at Summer Camp two years ago, and had a boy who was very homesick. One of the leaders took the boy on a horseback riding trip on Wednesday, and the Scout had a great time. He had gotten over his homesickness, and was ready to finish out the week. When they got back to camp, the boy's mother was there, waiting on them. It turns out the boy had earlier found a Scout with a cell phone and called home. He was crying and his mom was crying, and she said she would come pick him up. Even though he had gotten over his homesickness, as soon as he saw mom, he was going home. He packed his stuff, left with mom, and the Troop never saw him again. The Troop has a "no cell phone" policy, but one Scout thought he knew better. So much for a Scout is helpful. Sometimes, the SM's know of what they speak.

[Stosh]

Hey, BA and I finally agree on something!

 

I have had the same experience with cell phones and homesickness. My tally is two scouts so far because of "borrowed" cell phones by homesick boys.

 

Stosh

[scoutldr]

As I said in the spunoff thread, I don't object to technology. I do object to allowing rude and/or thoughtless behavior (on the part of scouts OR parents) interfere with the program or inconvenience others. If our youth were being taught proper manners and consequences, we wouldn't be having this discussion. A Scout is Courteous.

 

And kudos to tombitt and others for having a courteous discussion, even if, shall we say, a bit "spirited". We're all here for the same reason...for the good of the youth we serve. Feel free to use the Electronics Chip idea...it's not copyrighted...yet. ;-)

[Narraticong]

I am 100% in line with tombitts feelings about teaching responsibility through trust. The expectation is that a Scout will act responsibly at all times. The reality is that they often fail. But Scouting is the place where they are expected to fail, repeatedly, without grudges. It is a proving ground for manhood and good citizenship.

 

If a Scout uses a cell phone, axe, knife, saw, or matches in an incorrect or irresponsible manner, we have an opportunity to teach. So, I really don't care if a Scout has a cell phone in his pocket anymore than a pocketknife or pencil and paper. It is a tool that has a time and place. We would never stop a boy from bringing a book for use in his spare time. Why care if he plays the video games on his cell phone instead of reading?

 

When we do see him playing video games, it is a good reality check for the troop program. Why is he not more engaged in the outdoors or activity around him? Use it as an opportunity. Ask the Scout to take on some task. If it is really his own down time and he has not been abusing it, then we need to accept the entertainment of the current time.

 

I similarly had my young SPL ask about sheath knives. I often carry one myself. He asked if Scouts are allowed. My question to him was "1. Is it a useful tool for the job and not just an opportunity to look "cool"? 2. Will it be used responsibly? 3. Are you confident of using it safely?" If so, in my mind it is no different than any other tool. Am I taking a risk? Certainly. But the reward is worth the risk.

[Knot Head]

Our troop policy is that electronic devices like games, IPODS and phones are not allowed on campouts. Scouts can have it in the car/truck but when we reach our destination it stays locked in the leader's vehicle. You need permission to get it out of the car and use it on a campout. I've never in 3 years had a scout ask to use a cell phone locked in the car. While we ride my rules are scouts can text people UNLESS I can hear the keys click. If they cannot silent text then texting is out. Sometimes a kid will bring their Ipod in my truck, but usually the kids just talk among themselves on the ride. Bottom line, they can use the ipod or text in the car unless it starts to bug me. My truck, my rules.

 

Phones are allowed at eagle projects, meetings etc. but have to be on silent and can't be used by boys unless it is an emergency or permission is given. It is kinda handy to see a scout dial a parent to ask if X date is good for him to go camping when appropriate, and ask Mom to bring a check when she comes to pick him up. Usually they just use them to call mom to come get them if we finish up early on a service project.

 

If I ever did see one on a camopout (edit: being used inappropriately) I'd probably just lock it up until the campout was over. If it we were backpacking I'd just stow it until we got back to the parking lot.

 

I suspect guys have them but as long as I don't see them or hear them use them then I'm okay.(

 

With respect to homesick kids borrowing phones calling home and mom coming to get them... So far this has not happened in our troop - at least that I know of.

 

I'd explain why I thought taking Jimmy home was a bad idea and then let mom do her thing. If he never comes back that's her choice. I talk about this at length before summer camp to make sure all parents and I are on the same page. Each year we have homesick guys but so far they have all made it thru summer camp. All but one of them stayed in the troop. The lone exception was returned home safely but we never saw him again.

[Eagle1982]

Tombitt,

 

Couple questions...

 

(1) Do you know for certain it is the SM's made up policy? Did the committee agree?

In our troop, the PLC made a no phone policy.

 

(2) Why is not being allowed a cell phone saying. "You don't trust the 14 year old?" Can't it also be, "Learning to get by without?" or "practicing survival skills when disconnected?" - I just don't see it as a measure of trust, I see it as a measure of willingly going without, a form of lent if you will. Just because I trust my son with a 9mm handgun, samurai sword and stick of dynamite, it doesn't mean I'm going to disregard rules and let him take those camping.

 

From your own admission, your son has violated the rules more than once. My question to you, you say you are not tethered to your 14 year old, but is he tethered to you? Does he not trust YOU enough to pick him up from a regular meeting without having to call? That's real trust to do that.

 

[Twocubdad]

How does HAVING cell phones accomplish the purpose, mission and vision of the BSA?

 

Nothing requires me to scratch every little itch that comes along. I could teach responsibility and how to appropriately handle technology by taking ATVs everywhere we go instead of hiking. Responsible handgun use would also be a good lesson. Nationally, BSA did the math and figured the risk and rewards don't balance. (And I understand there is a safety component in these two examples which aren't a concern with cell phones, so let's don't go down that trail.) We have lots of tools and methods for teaching the same lessons. Uniforming, a traditional method of Scouting, can teach boys the lesson that what is appropriate for one situation isn't appropriate for another. Camp stoves, sheath knives and axes are all part of the traditional outdoor program which teach boys how to be responsible with tools which have the potential for abuse.

 

Cell phones are an attractive nuisance. Boys just don't want to leave them along. Now it's a not just a matter of talking on them, when you get tired of talking you can text. When you're tired of texting you can play games. When the games get old you can listen music. Then you can start over with a phone call. Maybe your son, Tombitt, can handle the gear responsibly. I know a lot of guys who can't. My older son can take it or leave it. My younger son would be glued to something electronic 24/7 if he were given the opportunity. And a whole bunch of boys in the troop are just like him. To the basic desire/addiction of the gizmos, add the possibility to show off you toys in front of your buddies and it becomes a constant distraction.

 

And let's just mention the 1200 pound gorilla in the corner. As a matter of personal preference I don't like having the intrusion on the outdoor experience. Part of what we seek to teach boys is to enjoy the solitude of nature; the experience of getting away from everyday conveniences and the comfort of being alone with your thoughts. You miss that if you're glued to and LED screen.

 

In our troop, we choose to solve the problem by just banning electronics outright. The time we would spend managing them is not worth what they could possibly add to the program. Almost all the leaders and most of the parents agree. Most parents enthuiastically support the idea that the boys have to give up electronics for a weekend now and again. (Why they don't have the cajones to enforce that themselves is another thread.) If they disagree with the troop policy, they are more than free to find -- or start -- a troop with policies more to their liking. One of the great strengths of the BSA is the flexibility of the program. Each troop has the opportunity to craft a program that works best for the members of our unit.

[Lisabob]

From what you write, it sounds as though the immediate objection isn't to the policy itself, but to the uneven way in which it is (or isn't) enforced. That is a whole different ball of wax.

 

Maybe the SM is a little over the top. On the other hand, I agree that it is a bit odd that you are willing to send your child off into the woods in this fellow's care, but you are not willing to give him the respect and support he is due when it comes to a fairly minor matter like whether your son should have a cell phone with him.

 

Other people violating the rules (and lying about it) is a poor justification for your son to do the same. If you really feel that strongly about the policy then there's nothing wrong with you telling your son that although you disagree, you still support the SM's decision out of an abundance of respect and appreciation for the SM's generosity of time, energy, and experience that makes the troop camping trips possible. Now THAT, to me, would be setting a fine example of courtesy for a growing young man to follow.

 

 

[mmhardy]

As a matter of personal preference I don't like having the intrusion on the outdoor experience. Part of what we seek to teach boys is to enjoy the solitude of nature; the experience of getting away from everyday conveniences and the comfort of being alone with your thoughts.

 

So camp rifle and shotgun ranges, waterfronts, ball fields and mess halls are not a problem? ;-)

 

The Electronic Chit card is a great idea.

[Lisabob]

Sorry mmhardy, but those are poor comparisons because when you LEAVE each of those places, you are done with that activity. Also, if you don't want to put up with the noise on the range, the splashing at the waterfront, or the bad singing in the mess hall, you can actively choose to avoid those particular locations. Part of the annoyance factor of (badly managed) cell phone use is that it is, or at least can be, constant. It is not confined to any particular place and it often spills over into the enjoyment of other people who do not wish to hear it, but who cannot escape it.