Webelos Crossover Question

[nettie0523]

I am a DL for a large Pack with an excellent CM BUT when our boys are getting ready to crossover they are channeled directly into the Troop that is affiliated with our Chartered Org. and run by our former CM. That is not the real problem but it has always been my understanding that Webelos are supposed to try out different troops to see what is a good fit. This year was the first year since I've been with the Pack that we had a WII go to a different troop. His mother was concerned that he would be singled out and treated differently by his Den leader so she didn't tell anyone until the night before. While the SM was very understanding and even made a point of getting the other SM there for the crossover on short notice, it appears that our CM was not. I agree that the parent should have notified the first SM much sooner but in the meantime our CM sat down with next year's WII leaders and gave a big speech about how every boy can choose where they go but if they go to a different troop they don't go to this crossover ceremony. This is a big weekend for our Pack, we always have a Pack camping weekend at the same time and the boys that crossed over go off to spend the night with their new troop. Since it is the Pack that pays for the person that comes and leads the ceremony, makes all the food for the party afterwards, and supplies the labor, etc., why shouldn't a boy going to a different troop get to participate in the same crossover?

 

I am wondering how other Packs/Troops handle this and also at what point in the year? Traditionally we do our Blue and Gold in March and then a month later we do our Crossover. Are there guidelines for when these events take place or is it up to the individual units?

[ScoutNut]

Your CM is narrowminded and wrong. What about the CC. The CC is basically in charge of the spending, not the CM.

 

Boys should cross to a Boy Scout Troop when THEY are ready. They should cross to the Troop that THEY feel is a best fit for THEM.

 

Per BSA, one of the responsibilities of the CM is -

 

"Help plan and conduct impressive Webelos graduation ceremonies involving parents and guardians, the Scoutmaster, the Webelos den chief, the Webelos den leader, and the troop junior leaders."

 

Notice it does NOT state only do this if the Webelos are going to the Troop YOU like.

 

Usually, our 5th grade Webelos are done by February. We celebrate Blue and Gold in February (the BSA birthday month). The Scouts from our Charter Org's BS Troop have put together an Indian ceremony that they preform for our Webelos at the end of our B&G. The SM from each Troop that is receiving one of our Webelos is there (along with the SPL) to welcome them. The Scouts and Scouters from the various Troops attend our B&G as guests of the Pack.

 

[BrentAllen]

Your CM needs to understand a things:

 

1. The cross-over ceremony is conducted by the Pack; it is a Pack event.

 

2. A Webelos is a member of the Pack until he crosses over into a Troop.

 

3. The Pack should treat its members with respect, including Webelos who are crossing over into another Troop.

 

4. Webelos should be encouraged to visit the local Troops, to find the one that best meets their needs. If a Webelos is going to join another Troop, he should notify his WDL, who should notify the CM. The CM should invite the SM from the other Troop to attend so he can accept the Webelos into his Troop.

 

Traditionally, Blue & Gold Banquets were held in February, and cross-over ceremonies were a part of the banquet. Due to the size of Packs, the lengths of programs, and the desire to hold cross-over ceremonies at different venues (outdoor events with OA ceremonial teams), these ceremonies are held some time after B & G. We hold them as soon as possible after B & G so the boys can get active in their Troops. Our District holds our Camporee at the end of March, and we want the new Scouts to attend. Also, our main camp opens registration for MB classes at Summer Camp on the 1st of April, and the classes fill up quickly. If we don't have the boys in Troops, it is very difficult to plan for them. Hope this helps.

[Beavah]

Yah, nettie0523, welcome to da forums, eh?

 

In answer to your question, it is up to individual units when the events take place. If there's any trend, I'd say that in da southern parts of the country it's more common to see lads cross over earlier in the year (when da weather is nicer before it gets too hot), while in da northern states it tends to be a bit later as the weather improves. Around these parts, Blue and Golds and crossovers are often held together. Earliest start in late February, latest wrap up around now. Sometimes crossovers are held by da troops welcoming the boys, not by the packs. In one district, da district runs a crossover campout for everybody. Just depends.

 

Your pack and troop are owned by da same organization, so it's pretty normal for 'em to have closely integrated programs that lead boys from one to da other. By and large, that's a good thing, and worth supporting. More boys are likely to stay in scoutin' that way than the situation where there isn't a tight relationship. In some religiously-sponsored CO's, it's expected. Yeh don't say whether you're urban or rural. Urban folks, where there are a fair number of troops in an area, tend to develop da "shop around" thing unless a church sponsor runs it tighter. Rural areas there often aren't other troops to shop around to.

 

Since your pack seems to do crossover as part of a pack campout, I reckon it's hard to coordinate with da calendars of other troops besides your sister troop. And in such a case any other SM or troop would need to be invited as a guest, and it's OK not to invite someone as a guest to your show. We might not agree, but it's da pack's call, especially if it makes da coordination harder.

 

That havin' been said, personally I salute da SM who called out his fellow SM so that someone was there to welcome the boy into his new troop, and I reckon mom should be a bit ashamed to spring that on folks at the last minute. If I had my druthers, I'd advise the CM to relax. He doesn't have to encourage the lads to shop around, but honorin' a family's choice with da simple courtesy of a shared crossover seems like a better way to go.

 

Beavah

 

[nettie0523]

Thank you for all of your replies. We are an urban Pack and there are three other Packs and at least two other troops in our city alone. Beavah, thanks for the welcome. Everyone makes some good points and its helpful to hear how other Packs do things to get an outside perspective. The reason I am looking into this now is that we have already had a couple of boys crossover (last year) that were BIG into Scouting and the affiliated Troop wasn't a good fit, so they dropped out. One boy never made it through summer camp. We have boys coming up that are not all about back country camping and hiking 30 miles (including my own), and I would rather help them find a troop that's right for them so they stay in Scouting. I think if we can coordinate it (we set our crossover date in August) early enough, inviting an SM from another troop to welcome the new boys shouldn't be too difficult.

[Beavah]

We have boys coming up that are not all about back country camping and hiking 30 miles (including my own)

 

Yet.

 

Sometimes da young lads can be a bit scared or overwhelmed by da outdoor program of an active troop. But that active outdoor program is vital to keeping those lads when they hit age 13 or 14.

 

Key is to ease da transition, especially for oldest children who aren't used to havin' older brothers around. If I may suggest, consider a more active and fun campin' program for your son and his webelos, and work a bit with da SM and youth leaders in the troop to help with that and with da first six months of the transition.

 

I'd give the troop some feedback and your own webelos program a kick up before I'd abandon a good relationship and a troop with a strong outdoor program.

 

Beavah

 

[nettie0523]

Beavah,

 

I hear you on that. I am planning some camping with my den (WI after June 1st) and the other two W1 dens in the fall. I have 9 boys in my den and only my son and the son of my ADL have slept in a tent before. I did manage to get two of the other boys to sign on for Webelos Resident Camp this summer. I think they will enjoy it. My biggest concern about the SM is that when one of those boys that crossed over last year and then quit (that I mentioned previously), his father sent the SM a lengthy email explaining their concerns and why his son was not happy. He asked the SM to call him so they could talk about it. The SM never even acknowledged it. He sent another one and again no reply. I just want our boys to be given the option of checking out other troops without feeling like it will be held against them.

[gcnphkr]

As a SM I encourage scouts looking at our troop to also consider other troops. I'd rather the scout find a troop he enjoys and will stick with than one that he is stuck with.

[Stosh]

As with any new program it can be pretty intimidating at first. Sometimes we over-hype the Boy Scout program and overwhelm the new boys. Our NSP run a completely different program than the older boys. Yes, there's a strong emphasis on advancement so the new boys have the skills to tackle a greater challenge. Our canoe "trips" for the NSP start out with a 2 hour float down an easy river, then after a few more progressingly difficult trips, including eventually an overnighter on the river, then they are ready for the whitewater trips.

 

To announce to the NSP they will be going on a whitewater trip the first summer is going to scare off a lot of potentially great scouts. Just remember to pick up the skill level of a Webelos boy and then develop it gradually. Even at 13, the eyes of the boys on top of that first major rapids is just as big as a Webelos boy when he steps into a canoe for the first time. Once the novelty has worn off on the whitewater canoeing, then it's time for sea kayaking (after taking the roll-over and other safety training!)

 

Start with a day hike with a campfire meal and eventually work yourself into Philmont.

 

There's always something else out there that has more bite than the last trip, but have patience and don't rush it. It's really boring for the SM and ASM to take these boys out on a calm river for a 2 hour float or a 5-mile hike with a day pack, but the dividends will pay off in the long run.

 

Stosh

[Knight]

It has been pretty common around here to have two, sometimes three, troops at a crosover because the Webelos are going to different troops.

 

If they all bring their troop and patrol flags, it makes for quite a bit of show for the younger Cubs to see.

 

...and that reminded me of this gem I saw on the BSA site:

 

Flaming or Magic Neckerchiefs

 

"It has come to our attention that some Web sites, older publications, and instructions exist for a Webelos crossover or Boy Scout advancement ceremony that involves igniting a neckerchief dipped in a chemical fuel including acetone or alcohol mixed with water."

 

Who the heck is setting a neckerchief on fire?!?!?!?!?! I hope the boy was not wearing it... (yikes!)

[ThunderFox]

Nettie welcome,

 

Unfortunately Nettie you will find in this program you will never cease to be astounded by the number of people who can read the very same manual or attend the very same training and have as many differing interpretations as those who read the book or took the training. Re-attending training and sampling these boards should help to verify what you think you know; I know it helps me.

 

I always told my Scouts to "Run The Twelve" when faced with decision.

1. Is it Helpful

2. Is it Friendly and run all 12.

At the end, if you have 12 yeses or maybe a few "not applicables" you are probably fine.

 

With adults I would add two more:

A. Is it in accord with BSA Policy and Rules?

B. Is it for the boys?

 

I think it is obvious too many adults get caught up with being in charge and abuse the position by imposing policies and rules that are personal preferences. The CM you spoke of needs a gut-check. If a polite one on one conversation aside from the others about what his duty actually is to the Pack does not change his attitude, a new leader is called for. He needs to understand that his personal preference is detracting from the life experiences of boys he is obligated to serve not dictate.

 

We as leaders need to understand we are guiding parts of lives and we need to be mindful of what is best for the boys we promised to serve.

 

Cheers

Ol' Thunder Fox