Hollywood scouts

[sandspur]

OK, apropos of nothing but a thread on how scouting is seen in todays world and how or whether we should adapt made me think of how scouts are portrayed in the media.

Aside from Steven Spielberg in his Indiana Jones phase, nearly every portrayal of scouts I see on TV has some pseudo organization (like Boy Woodchuck Guides) with what is clearly intended to be a scout uniform but in a different color and a portrayal of the program that is clearly from someone who is aware the BSA exists but knows nothing about it (the writers).

So, this caused me to wonder. Are the portrayals of pseudo-scouts because BSA holds the rights to BSA and the uniform and wont give permission for their use (except to Spielberg?) or because the writers dont know any better? I suppose it could also be that the writers dont want to be sued but I cant see that happening.

 

[Stosh]

As a historical reenactor and history buff, I can assure you Hollywood knows very little about reality. Hollywood entertains, not teach. Stereotypes and other subtle bigotry permeates the silver screen regardless of how liberally senstive they portray themselves to be. If one wishes to know what is really going on in the world, stick with documentaries, which Hollywood doesn't do.

 

Remember, GONE WITH THE WIND, might be a classic movie, historically speaking it is a total farce. Name any historical movie and there are hundreds if not thousands of examples of where Hollywood took liberties with the facts/realities. The only person that I would think would know something about scouts might be Spielberg (Eagle Scout) but then as a director his hands are a wee bit tied too. The guy that signs the checks makes the rules.

 

Stosh

[CNYScouter]

Check out the BSA Innovation Engine on www.scouting.org.

This is a place to place suggestions for improving the BSA.

 

I suppose it could also be that the writers dont want to be sued but I cant see that happening.

 

This is the exact reason why in the new movie "Up" the kid is not a Boy Scout.

 

on the BSA Innovation Engine you'll see a suggestion about Scouting in the Movies

http://ideas.scouting.org/akira/dtd/18434-2119

 

read the replies.

 

We actually were in talks with Disney/Pixar about having an active promotional role with UP!, and the branding/marketing team at Disney was really excited. That it at least, until it went up their flag pole and reached the legal department, at which point it got declined due to our membership/leadership policies.

 

 

 

[OldGreyEagle]

Of all the spoof Boy Scout movies there are, Bushwhacked has to be one of the best, it has Scoutmaster Jack Erickson (played by Brad Sullivan) as the scoutmaster I want to be.

 

Sure, its called the Ranger Scouts and a bunch of 12-13 year olds become Eagle Scouts (and a girl, cooties and all is included) and the main character Max, is the only adult leading a co-ed trip but beyond that, its just like the troop.

 

Did I mention that I want to be just like Scoutmaster Jack Erickson?

[Hal_Crawford]

Movies "get things wrong" for a number of reasons. Sometimes it is to avoid legal issues or the need to get permission. You rarely if ever see BSA uniforms unless severely altered because BSA holds the rights to those uniforms and guards them carefully. I doubt that they would give permission unless they had such things a script approval. Hollywood producers are loath to agree to such terms as it can slow down production and that costs lots of money. For a while you rarely saw the LAPD depicted in the movies or on TV because they had gotten savvy and wouldn't lend their name unless they had some level of artistic control.

 

They sometime get it wrong for dramatic reasons. Sometimes the actual events are altered or compressed to improve the story telling. Saving Private Ryan is regarded by many WW2 vets as the most accurate movie portrayal of the D-Day landings. Still, while it may capture the feel of the battle some of the facts have been changed. Dog green beach and the D1 draw were not taken by rangers from the frontbut rather it was taken from the rear by troops who had broken through in a more lightly defended sector further east. Was it better story telling to have Captain Miller's rangers be the heros? Absolutely.

 

Sometimes they get it wrong because it is too difficult or expensive to use actual locations or to be historically accurate. That's why you might see a Pacific Bell phone booth at Dulles International airport (Die Hard 2). Many films use Vancouver or Toronto as stand-ins for US cities because its cheaper to film there. Hair styles are often wrong because it is too expensive to compensate actors to cut their hair. In the TV series MASH you rarely ever saw actors with military haircuts because it was unreasonable to ask an actor (especially a day player) to do that. To get a military buzz might lose them other work in contemporary projects.

 

For those who know DC how 'bout the movie No Way Out where Keven Costner runs into the Georgetown Metro station (there isn't one) and when the train arrives its the Baltimor Metro.

 

Finally, Hollywood often gets it wrong because they do not know any better. Designers often miss details because of a lack or knowledge or research. I am a set designer and I can't count the number of things I have gotten wrong just because I didn't know better or followed research that turned out to be wrong. I once designed a back drop for an opera (Maria Stuarda) that was supposed to look like a tapestry with coat of arms of Queen Elizabeth I. The painter did a great job but it turned out that the drawing I used as research had her motto misspelled ("Dieu est mon doit" instead of "Dieu et mon doit"). It was onstage for about 10 minutes of rehearsal before someone told me how dumb I was. I think every scenic or costume designer has at least one similar story.

 

Sometimes I am irked by dumb stuff that everyone should know like flag placement or 50 star flags in WW2 movies.

 

Documentaries screw up too. On a History Channel show about Peter the Great I watched last night, they had a close up of a circa 1700 soldier placing a percussion cap on his musket.

 

But if I might be allowed to take one dig at re-enactors... is it true that the Civil War was fought primarily by men in their forties, fifties and sixties?

 

Hal

[GernBlansten]

One has to wonder what wrath SNL got for this skit.

http://blogs.nypost.com/popwrap/photos/Alec-Baldwin-canteen-boy.jpg

[OldGreyEagle]

Not only were the Civil War so (or War of Northern Agression)soldiers 40 -60 years old, they also averaged 250 pounds each

 

best Hollywood moment for me came in 1975, there was a movie called "The Man in the Glass Booth" with Maxililian Schell. It's about a presumed Nazi War Criminal. During the movie an x-ray is produced to prove the man is or is not the criminal and the camera looks through the film, while the Dr looking for a healed fracture. I look at the image and start to giggle, then laugh and then guffaw, my date is totally embarassed as this is a pivital plot point. Through laughs I am able to choke out that not only was the Dr pointing at a pelvis, not as shoulder as had been mentioned, but an IUD was clearly present in the center of the film.

 

Oddly enough, I don't think we ever dated again,

 

Did I mention I am an X-Ray Tech?(This message has been edited by oldgreyeagle)

[GernBlansten]

I luv it when they throw out the book on physics. Like in Armageddon when they "fly" the space shuttles in the vacuum of space through the asteroids.

[SSScout]

Ever watch a Roman/Biblical/sandal flick and notice the Rolex on the wrist of the hero?

 

If you watch closely to "Fist Full of Dollars", you can see a Winebago go by in the distance of one scene.

 

God help the poor Asst. Director in charge of continuity. I remember a TV show (which is in syndication and you'll see it sometime) in which the female lead injures her LEFT foot and hobbles around on a crutch under her LEFT shoulder for a while and then shows up with her RIGHT foot strapped and a crutch under her RIGHT shoulder. Guffaw!

 

Oh the humanity!

[AlFansome]

...and as a computer guy, don't even get me started on how a search through a database for fingerprints/mugshots/whatever always flashes the images really fast on the screen. Or when the grainiest, fuzziest video can be made crystal clear to get that license plate info at just the click of a mouse! My wife is now conditioned to my instinctive groan whenever computer capabilities are "enhanced". The worst is that blonde character with the glasses on "Criminal Minds"....gotta reach for the remote on those scenes!

[Hal_Crawford]

Gern:

Notice that there is no visible BSA trademarked insignia. No fleur de lis, rank insignia (unless that is an arrow of light on the sleeve?) no Boy Scouts of America strip. I don't think they would have much of a case based on khaki and the red/white unit number.

 

OGE:

That is excellent. How 'bout this. In the movie The Longest Day a German soldier raises his binoculars and looks through the slit of his bunker. On the front of the binoculars you can read "Made in Germany".

 

Another show that trashes historical accuracy is the Showtime series the Tudors. Aside from the fact that they make history more entertaining through the use of sex and nudity they are constantly getting props and costumes that our way out of period. Most of the women's clothes tend to be from the Elizabethan period (a generation later and very different) and props are all over the place. Henry VIII's carriage has a suspension system from the late 1800s. Henry died in the 1540s. At one point he fires a flint lock pistol, 100+ years before its invention. In terms of plot line the combine characters in ways that make no sense... Mary Queen of Scots cannot be born because her mother marries someone other than King James of Scotland. Oh yeah, Henry is a handsome young stud at a point in his life when he should be forty, fat and falling to pieces. It's entertaining but wrong, wrong, wrong.

 

While were on the subject (if you don't mind watching R rated), Kinsey starring Liam Neeson has a scene representing sex researcher Kinsey's youth as a Boy Scout. I suspect BSA was not consulted on the material there.

 

Hooray for Hollywood.

[GernBlansten]

I'll up the ante.

In the movie Slumdog Millionaire, the correct answer to the question of who wrote the song "Darshan Do Ghanshyam Naath" is shown as 16th century poet "Kavi Surdas". However in reality, this song is written by Gopal Singh Nepali for the movie Narsi Bhagat (1957). This song is also credited as traditional and originally written by 15th century poet Narsinh Mehta, whose life that film is based on. (Many, including the film, mistakenly attribute it to the 16th-century poet Surdas due to the fact that Surdas was blind and the song is a prayer asking God to "appear" before him, for his "eyes thirst for Your sight".)

 

How that ever got through editing, only Vishnu will know.

[Stosh]

I'll be the first to cry "FARB" when it comes to modern Civil War reenactors. That is why the Venturing crew of boys 14-20 in great shape are in great demand, they simply LOOK just like CW soldiers!!! When they go to great lengths to be precisely historical, we get comments not only on the age, but the number of comments concerning the exactly correct equipment is nice, too. All my boys have to do is stand around and they can beat most reenactors on authenticity. Once they get into drill and camp life, no one holds a candle to them. They have often been viewed as the standard by which others are judged. It might be nice if I was bragging, but these are things said about the boys, I don't have to make it up. The artillery and their big loud guns can draw a good spectator crowd as well as the cavalry with their horses, but when my boys start doing their bayonet drill, the crowd is often other reenactors. Being young and agile they are the first called on when the regiment needs skirmishers too. The boys are in seventh heaven at all their events.

 

These boys read documentary books like others eat candy, but when it comes to movies they all take a unanimous pass unless they are looking for a comedy.

 

Stosh

 

 

 

[OldGreyEagle]

One of the better looking adults in a Boy Scout uniform has to be Robert DeNiro in "This Boys Life". Yes, the shot of DeNiro in Campaign hat, shorts and stocking was onl about 5 seconds long, the charactor of the father was an abusive weasel, but boy, he did look good

[scoutldr]

Thanks, Gern. I just bought Slumdog at Costco...can't wait to drop that bit of trivia as we're watching the movie!