Loosing your cool.

[Gutterbird]

Just got back from a weekend campout and I lost my cool and barked at a scout in front of all the parents. Let me back up a bit. I have the philosophy of talking across to the scouts rather than to talk down at them. I try to show them the same respect that I expect them to show others. Very seldom do I ever yell at a scout, however, there is one scout in particular that has really been pushing our (the leaders) patients on this campout. He is somewhat hyper active, does not respect others belongings, is loud, and did something in front of a group of people that I will not repeat. Anyhow, at the end of the campout I was handing out Tot-n-Chip cards to a few new scouts that have earned them on this campout. This particular scout has already earned his Tot-n-Chip but lost it and wants a replacement, I told him that I was handing out new cards only ( I did not have the time to retrieve another card right then and there) and that I will have a replacement card for him at the next troop meeting. He did not want to wait and wanted it NOW. I lost my cool and yelled, telling him I would have it for him at the next troop meeting. Because this was the end of the campout, the parents where all there picking up their scouts. I do realize that I am going to have to talk with the parents of this particular scout, but I feel bad that I lost my cool.

 

So my question for you leaders, what do you do when you loose your cool? Have you ever yelled at a scout in front of parents? I am sure there are scouts out there that push us to the limits, so how does everybody handle situations like this?

 

[CA_Scouter]

I'm thinking you feel guilty about losing your cool because it was out of character for you and you are trying to project a good image to the scouts and parents in your troop.

 

Only you can gauge the degree to how far you might have stepped out of line. From your description looks like 'not much'. A little frustration spilling over from an unruly and uncooperative kid. It happens.

 

You may simply want to address you raising your voice, but you should also bring the kid's unruliness into the conversation. Make sure you mention that he is one of many in the troop and that you need cooperation from all in order to have a fun and succesful time. Simple stuff like that. Make sure you don't entertain any mention of special consideration for the kid.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Beavah]

Hi gutterbird,

 

Good on yeh for bein' thoughtful.

 

Here's a question to ask yourself: how much sleep did yeh get on the campout?

 

Seems like I often see a connection between da sleep adults get and whether or not their patience meter expires.

 

Beavah

[CalicoPenn]

Just how badly did you lose your cool? Did you become a snarling beast or did you just sharply raise your voice? Did the parent's cringe, just raise their eyebrows a touch, or even secretly smile? Has anyone else talked to you about this or are you just beating yourself up over your own sense of guilt? Only you can judge that for yourself.

 

Unless you were incredibly over the line, in which case a talk with the committee where you offer your apologies and resignation may be in line, (and from your description, it doesn't sound like this is the case), you need to let it go and stop dwelling on it.

 

At the next meeting, have the Totin-Chip card as promised - when you give it to the lad, tell him that next time he loses it, he will have to re-earn it (you're sure that other leaders haven't snipped a couple corners already, and that he's just conveniently "lost it" right?). Then file this away until your next Scoutmaster's Conference with the lad when you have a chat with him about his behavior at camp-outs and how it causes his leaders to become frustrated with him, lessening the enjoyment of Scouting for everyone in the Troop.

 

[evmori]

Been there. Done that. Time to apologize. End of story.

 

When I was a SM, if a Scout lost his Tot-n-Chit, he had to re-earn it.

[Crew21_Adv]

Gutterbird,

 

Greetings!

 

I'll be honest. I've been Scouting over a few years. I've had my limits pushed and lost my cool at least three times. You ask an honest and blunt question. Have you ever yelled at a scout in front of parents?

 

Yelled at a Scout, yes. Restrained a Scout, yes.

 

I've told a similar story, here in the forum and also during Outdoor Leadership Skills when we talk about G2SS and YPT. How far can adults be pushed? What are their limits? What could cause them to be asked to leave Scouting? Along with other G2SS topics.

 

Everyone has their limits. Are they short fused? Or do they have long endurance before someone crosses that threshold?

 

Ive been pushed to the limit and over the limit only on three occasions I can recall. I lost my cool in response to violent youth and verbal challenges. Would I have been asked to leave Scouting? Would I have been justified by the Committee? I would expect a unit committee and Scouting professionals to be rational, as to the cause and effect.

 

Now remaining calm in tense situations allows a person to think and plan out things. I (similar to others) have elevated my voice, captured the attention of the entire troop, instructed them what needs to be done, what needs to be done now, and how much time we have to do it. At the end of meetings and campouts, we have the usual parents (I am one of them too) that want to take my child and get home. But I know, there is work to be done at the end of a camp out. Drying wet tents, cleaning grease off the stove, or just putting gear back into the Quartermaster shed. At the end of meetings, parents want to make a mad dash for the parking lot, and leave the Scoutmaster to sweep the floor and take the trash out. Usually, at the end of campouts, it is Stand Fast! Do not leave the parking lot!!! Parents do not take your Scouts!!! Senior Patrol Leader Take Charge!

 

I have also seen older Scouts (which the younger Scouts idolize), ridiculing the Senior Patrol Leader. Ive captured their attention, and redirected them back to listening to the Senior Patrol Leader. Essentially raising my voice, to control the group, to bring them back to the immediate task that they departed from.

 

I would say; there is a difference between losing your cool and being heard. And if an adult lost their cool, I would want to know the reasons that caused it to occur and the outcome of them losing their cool, and then make a determination as for course of action. My question would be, was it justified? What occurred that may (or may not) justify this situation? And what was the outcome of a Scout Leader losing their cool?

 

Its not fun being physically challenged by a 16 y/o Scout, whom thinks he can take you down. There may be some threshold limits that a cocky older Scout may cross purposely. They may push the wrong button of a leader, if its verbal or they become physical. Ive had to be yelled at by two boys and physically challenged to be pushed over my limit.

 

What stories make it home to the dinner table and the Scout parents is like selective hearing. The story not told at the Scouts home dinner table is, Life Scout Johnny got into Mr Crew21_Adv face and curse at him. That story never gets brought up. But the story that the youth will remember is, Man! Mr Crew21_Adv yelled at Life Scout Johnny. My own leadership has been brought into question by parents that never attend meetings or events. Only for other leaders to state, that the troubled Scouts are only revealing half of the truth to their own parents.

 

So, work on establishing a longer and stronger threshold. Think before you speak. All the Scouts see what you do and say, as well as the parents. Resist as long as you can. You may be pushed beyond the limit again, but dont make it so easy. A whining and complaining Scout shouldnt even be a thought, you may have to elevate your volume to delay his sincere request. But it should need to be the more serious incidents that takes you up to your limit and crosses the threshold.

 

As a metaphor, like the mighty Mississippi River, shore up the canals and bring in sandbags to resist damage. The dam and levies have a threshold, but you would have done everything to maintain your cool.

 

Good Luck!

 

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

[OneHour]

Lost my cool to an adult, yes. Apologized to the whole troop and went on a self-banishment for a year ... wait ... that's call a vacation, right? Recently, yelled at the top of my lungs to stop a whole bunch of them from pushing each other in line. I had to ... there were 60 scouts and 40 parents around ... the noise level was extremely loud. They had to hear me somehow! It takes a better man to apologize and admits to his mistake.

[Stosh]

I'm so paranoid of losing my cool I've successfully been able to avoid it. There have been a ton of scouts that have tested my endurance and some have been pretty good at it. What I have found helpful is just before the breaking point, assign an ASM who hasn't been involved in the situation to take over and deal with it. I have good ASM's that understand this and we tag-team the situation when any of us get to that point. This takes a ton of trust in one's ASM's but it has worked for me over the years.

 

Sometimes paranoia is a good thing. At least my scouts get to live another day.

 

Stosh

 

[Eagledad]

>>I do realize that I am going to have to talk with the parents of this particular scout, but I feel bad that I lost my cool.

[Lisabob]

We have a couple of adults who bellow and shout all the time. These are often the same adults who don't get the idea of boy-led at all. They like to be in charge all the time. The scouts have learned to ignore them. We have a few others who are typically pretty level-headed. On the (rare) occasion when they raise their voices, the scouts pay attention. And finally, we have at least one who, according to my son, could do with a little more heat because he allows the boys to walk all over him.

 

Based on what you wrote, I doubt you are in the first category. If you are in the second or third, then unless you became a ranting lunatic (and that's not what it sounds like to me) it probably is not a big deal, although I could understand why you might have felt bad about it. If anything though, the scout owes you an apology for being obnoxious. I bet when he behaves that way at home, he gets what he wants. Probably a shock to him that it didn't turn out that way this time.

 

ETA: THere are a couple of boys who really irk me. Basically what I don't tolerate well at all, is manipulative, bullying behavior and bald-faced lying.(This message has been edited by lisabob)

[OldGreyEagle]

Sounds like a bad situation all the way around. I have some questions about this scout. You say he is loud, somewhat hyperactive and does not pick up on social cues. He is focused on one thing at a time and is oblivious to all else that is going on around him. Is this the first time he has demonstrated this behavior or is this a continued behavioral pattern?

[Mafaking]

 

Out of character yell at an annoying scout doing annoying things. Don't sweat it.

 

You'll get a pass on this one.

 

Have a brief talk with the parents and get back to doing what you do well.

 

 

[gwd-scouter]

Yep, although rare, I have lost my cool with a scout - in front of boys, adults, and parents. Certainly I felt bad about it and apologized. Didn't try to make excuses that it was somehow the scout's fault for pushing me too far, just apologized for my behavior.

 

That's not to say that I just let the whole thing go. I used the opportunity to later have a chat with the Scout and his parent(s) so that we could talk about what was usually ongoing and over-the-top disruptive behavior.

[NeilLup]

The Scout Oath does not require us to be perfect. It requires us to do our best. You did that. You are continuing to do that by asking this question. You are measuring up to the standards required by the Scout Oath.

 

As leaders we are expected to set an example. In my opinion, this does NOT mean that we have to be perfect. It rather means that if we make a mistake, we set the example of how one handles a mistake. We teach the Scouts how to deal with our mistakes. That may be one of the most important learning lessons that we give.

 

I once yelled at a Scout in front of the Troop and used inappropriate language. It was intentional as the Scout used this type of language to others and I asked how he liked it. It was suggested to me by several Scouts and by the boy's father that I had acted inappropriately. Upon reflection, I agreed. I apologized to the boy in front of the entire Troop. He accepted it and we moved on.

 

Some people believe that adults should never apologize to or acknowledge weakness to youth. I've never felt that perfect. I may be someone's boss or their supervisor or have responsibility for them, but that neither requires nor empowers me to be perfect.

 

I have heard it said by bridge players that if you make all of your slams, you aren't bidding enough of them. Similarly, I believe that if you are always cool, always in control and never make errors in dealing with people, you aren't revealing enough of yourself, aren't getting to know them and aren't "pushing the envelope" in developing citizenship, character and fitness.

 

Ask youself how, if you were a youth, you would like the Scoutmaster to handle this situation. The SM is an adult and will have authority before and after the incident. Don't promise never to do it again; you may not be able to keep that promise. If you feel you acted inappropriately, apologize for it, take responsibility and move on.

[sandspur]

Gutterbird:

Sounds like a minor transgression. For a sanity check, there was two-deep leadership right? So another adult must have been nearby. Did he/she think you were out of line? Might talk with them before you decide what to do. The fact that you ask your question at all indicates to me you do not have a real problem.