The leader? Or the boss?

[Eamonn]

I have been around for a while.

For a lot of the time that I have been around,I have served as "The Leader". Scoutmaster, Cubmaster .. you get the picture.

I think I'm a very easy going guy.

It takes a lot for me to get mad or upset.

I do try and treat people the way that I like to be treated.

Not just our youth members, but also the adults who work along beside me. (I like and use the term "Leadership Team").

 

I'm sure that I do things that upset people.

I know that they do things that irk me.

I've worked with the guys who wear their cell phone like some sort of a side-arm, guys who carry lap-tops everyplace.

Guys who want to sit around the camp-fire all night. Guys who make the most disgusting coffee I've ever drunk.

I would never in a million years tell an adult that he had to leave his cell phone in his car. - I have asked that they put it on vibrate when we are doing something where the phone would be a distraction.

When I'm tired I normally start dropping a few hints that it's about time we all hit the sack! But after a "Hey I don't know about you guys? But I'm going to bed!" I'm happy to toddle off leaving them to do what they will. -If they are a little loud? I don't have a problem asking them to keep it down and reminding them that the Scouts are asleep.

When it's time to get up? - It's time to get up.

No one has ever questioned this or not got up.

When we went to camp for two weeks, we worked out a roster of who would be off which night. I as a rule was happy to remain in camp. What the other adults did or got up to on their night off was up to them. It was never a problem.

The area where the adults camped was not supposed to be a Scout friendly area! Some of the adult tents were a bit of a mess.

But I never seen it as my job to tell them or even ask them to tidy it up. We did of course police the area at the end of our stay and try to leave it in better condition than when we arrived.

For the most part we all knew what we were good at and when it came to needing someone to do something the person who did it best just did it. If someone had nothing to do, they just gave a hand as needed.

Everyone was expected to set a good example to the youth.

Adults are just that adults and need to be treated as such.

I might be the SM, but I never seen that as me being boss.

When the coffee got too bad I made sure I was the first one up and made the coffee.

Eamonn.

[asm 411]

Neither.

 

I think we Scouters are more teachers or guides. I think from your description you fit into that category.

 

 

[acco40]

Eamonn, I admire your demeanor. I have issues with adults who are not trained and tell me in so many words what I'm doing is wrong because ...

 

Why don't you let the adults load the trailer? It would be so much faster!

 

Why do you have each patrol make out a menu? Isn't it more economical to eat as a troop?

 

How come you don't teach merit badges at troop meetings?

 

How come you have to select the merit badge counselor? Why can't you just publish the list and let the boy pick who he wants? Shouldn't it be boy led?

 

Why do you set the expectation that the boys should wear their uniform all the time? Shouldn't the boys make that decision?

 

I don't see why you let the SPL choose when the boys should go to bed or get up during outing. Why don't you get them up early?

 

As a Scoutmaster, I really get worn down by having to explain the program to the adults time after time. The boys are never the problem.

[gwd-scouter]

Leader or boss = other people's perception.

 

When they agree with you, they think of you as a leader. When they don't, you'll probably be considered a boss.

[asm 411]

"As a Scoutmaster, I really get worn down by having to explain the program to the adults time after time. ..."

 

Though not being the SM I have taken care of most of this problem for our troop. I put together a packet for new Scouts and parents. I go through the packet with the Webelos and parents on the Webelos outing in the fall (Each in coming Webelos family sees the information twice). When a boy joins that was not a Webelos I go through the packet with them the day they turn in their application. It spells out things clearly about how our troop works. It started out pretty short a little more than a page. Now I think it is around 7 pages. If I notice the Scouters answering the same questions several times I put and explaination it in the packet. It is well worth the 30 to 45 minutes worth of training I give each new family.

[OldGreyEagle]

Wasn't explaining the program one of the responsibilities of the Parent Co-ordinator?

[Eagledad]

I remember once talking with a DE about the challenges of his job. He explained that volunteer organizations like scouting tend to get a lot of bosses because many volunteers dont have any training or experience in leadership or group management to understand the difference. He said something like; its little people doing big peoples jobs with little peoples skills.

 

I think everyone of us know of somebody unqualified that takes on the leadership role more to push their own personal agenda (ego) than to help boys. Probably human nature, but like Eamonn, I cant imagine telling adults when they have to go to bed. If they can't treat adults like adults, how can they possbilty treat the boys any better? But then I look at lights out as the time to respect those sleeping, not the time to go to sleep. I enjoy the site of two scouts staying up late looking at stars and whispering among themselves. My dilemma would be deciding whether to join them or stay away so as not to risk spoiling their experience.

 

Barry

 

[Twocubdad]

I'm with you except for the bad coffee thing. Some things just can't be tolerated. A man's gotta have standards!

 

I don't mind the newbies. Most the folks who have been around start to "get it" as some point. The guys who want to make me scream are the ones who think they know the program because they have umpteen years experience. Truth is, they have one year's experience they've repeated umpteen times. They are the ones who see every problem/issue as an opportunity to "create" a solution instead of sticking to the proven program. I think one of the common denominators is that they are in it only or mainly for their son. They tend not to show up during baseball or lacrosse season despite the fact that I know they don't play or coach. All their "problems" all relate back to their own son. I rarely hear ideas for how we can improve the new Scout program, only that we need to do the 90-day fitness, finance and family life requirements as a troop or that we need more Eagle advisors.

[maccars]

For those of you who were Scouts, go back to the time when you first noticed the adults intruding on your experience.

 

My troop had a very active committee, which often joined us for at least one night on a weekend campout. Those adults usually slept in a troop provided 10 man tent with a separate dining fly (usually with a table for eating). That venue tended to become quite loud at times. I know for a fact that one night our SM made it very clear that Taps was the signal for the Scouts to be in their tents and quiet, and that Tattoo was the signal for the adults to have lights-out and subdued conversations (I remember because I was the bugler; the SM asked me to move closer to the adult area to play the last call of the night). After that one gentle reminder, I don't recall any problems ever again.

 

Our SM had such a high level of respect not only from the Scouts, but also from the parents and other adults. I don't think there was ever a time he wasn't completely in charge; or a time when his "friendly suggestion" wasn't considered law. A Scoutmaster sometimes has to take a difficult stand where the adults are concerned; the Scouts will forevermore remember his doing so for their benefit.

[ThunderFox]

I have two items to share that I feel are relevant to this topic:

 

1. Our troop is strong and we have a good group of adults who are trained and have been taught that WE set the example. We are the "Old Timer" patrol. Our patrol leader position rotates among the trained leaders, we use the same duty roster and menu planner the Scouts use. Our patrol campsite is the "Model" campsite and has an "Old Timers" gateway. New adults camping with us are guests who are oriented by the patrol and explained "Why Training". We have patrol guidelines that are published in the second item I wish to share here.

 

2. We have a "Parents Handbook & Troop Committee Guidebook" that was a labor of love by several leaders over the years as ticket items. Minus membership rosters and such, a copy is given to visiting parents during a Q&A session and explained. All of those "untrained" questions are answered therein. When they join the rosters, calendar and other member sensitive stuff is added. This tool has helped us maintain a "TRAINED" Committee and a leader staff of 15-25 Wood Badgers for many years.

 

Just message me with your email address if you would like the files. They are in MSWord and may be edited for your troop.

 

Cheers,

Ol' Thunder Fox

[BadenP]

Eamonn

 

What you describe seems to be common with the current generation of parents with boys of scout age. They are the rebels who will not be told what to do and the more you try the worse they become. What it comes down to is are you willing to give them their freedom, within reason, tolerate their less than stellar methodology or not. If you try to act like their boss they will reject you as leader and pull a power takeover. The best you can do is set the example and hope they follow, if they refuse than your only option is to find another unit or take a district or council position.

[ThunderFox]

My belief is what I was taught someplace - Share Leadership (but do your job)

 

The following is published in our "Parents Handbook & Troop Committee Guide". It is shared with W2 parents when they visit as part of an Orientation and Q&A session.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________

THE ADULT PATROL

"THE OLD TIMER PATROL"

 

PURPOSE:

1. Provide support to the troop program and the adult troop leaders.

 

2. Be a positive adult role model. Boys copy adults with whom they are close; the "Old Timer Patrol" can be an important influence for good in a boy's life.

 

GUIDELINES:

A. Set the example. When camping, being clean and properly dressed, helping with the camp chores, keeping your gear in good order and maintaining a cheerful outlook can have more influence on a boy than you can imagine.

 

B. All negative behavior such as profanity, obscene, ethnic, sexist or racist jokes, possession or consumption of alcoholic beverages is not allowed. Smoking, Dipping and chewing of tobacco is prohibited by boys and adults.

 

C. Liquid fuels are not allowed for fire starting by Scout or Adult.

 

D. Let the Scouts learn by doing it themselves; don't do it for them just because you know how or you can do it better. If they are bogged down, give them a timely suggestion offered in the form of a question. This will give them a hint toward the solution but still require them to think through to the problem's solution.

 

D. Except for short friendly visits, stay out of the patrol campsites, especially your son's campsite. When you visit, be sure to ask permission to enter their camp (we expect this same courtesy of them).

 

E. At troop activities, refrain from any disciplinary action toward your son, the troop and his patrol have rules and they will deal with him ,if needed. If you must have words with your son or any other boy, remember that except for dire circumstances, we praise in public and criticize in private. Plan ahead, have another Scouter have words with your son and you return the favor with his son. Ask yourself, were I not here, would what he did cause a Scoutmaster phone call to you at home? If not and you jump his case, he may lose interest in Scouts.

 

F. The Scouts have an open invitation to the adult campsite. We welcome their company in short amounts, but sometimes, when their stay is overly long, they need to be reminded there is a schedule of activities they are missing or they probably have patrol duties they need to fulfill. Some Scouts will, on occasion, use a visit to the adult campsite to get out of their patrol duties, especially if it is his turn to wash dishes.

 

G. Be a Friend. Give praise and compliments for jobs well done and even praise the good parts of jobs not so well done and encourage them to do better for their own satisfaction. To prove to themselves that they can do it.

 

F. Remember the Senior Patrol Leader is in charge, if there is a problem discuss it with him (discuss politely not tell) and the Scoutmaster; the SPL or the PLC will handle it. Do not engage the SPL in a long discussion about a personal concern, talk to the Scoutmaster to get the explanation you need. If there is serious

danger to life or limb, assume the role of a guardian/parent.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________

 

Our Troop Committee policy is that if you are going to be active you are welcome but you need to get trained as soon as possible. This is because there is the right way to things, many wrong ways to do things and, most importantly, there is a Scout Way to do things. The Scout was has to do with doing it one step at a time in a long drawn out process that virtually assures that any boy can understand it, learn it and benefit from it. We do not want to circumvent any learning experisnces.

 

Cheers,

Ol' Thunder Fox