Flag Code and Decorum question

[skeptic]

Perhaps a separate spin-off, but related. What are the thoughts on contacting businesses that fly flags that are either threadbare, or just done incorrectly, such as at night with no light? Every time I drive to the neighboring community along the 101, I see a motel with a flag at half staff, or almost so. I suspect the pulley or rope is bad, but do not know. Over the years, I cannot count how many frayed and discolored flags I have seen in front of places. Same for flags at night with no obvious lighting, unless nearby buildings is acceptable.

 

Just wonder if anyone feels it is worth the effort to contact at least the most egregious ones?

[gwd-scouter]

Anyone notice that OGE hasn't responded back on this topic? Hmmm, poking a stick at the forum folks maybe?

[John-in-KC]

Skeptic: I do.

[Narraticong]

I tend to agree with the idea of pointing out the error at a later time. Praise in public and criticize in private. It's reasonable to assume moving the flag during the meeting involved a certain amount of public criticism.

 

But as to tthe flag just being cloth, I'll take exception. I never served in the military, but I've been a lifelong Boy Scout. So a respect for authority and its representatives comes natural.

 

I'll remind everyone of something I hope was said at the beginniing of that meeting. "I pledge allegiance to the flag...". I would think proper allegiance calls for a concern for proper placement of the flag.

[OldGreyEagle]

oh you scamp, trying to cause problems?

 

I wanted to see what the response would be. A few months back the flag was on the wrong side of the speaker during Roundtable, I was uncomfortable looking at the flag on the wrong side and got up and moved it. My thought was not to disturb the meeting, but just to move it. I can tell you that when I went to sit back down, it was with few applause and I was told it bothered others and they saluted the courage I showed to make it right.

 

I figure we as Boy Scouts with Citizenship as one of our three Aims should know and practice the correct way of displaying the flag. I would not want to be in a room with a mal-positioned flag and have someone walk in and have them point out that the flag was wrong and how come this bunch of Boy Scouts didnt know how to display the flag. I guess I would place having a mal positioned flag as the same as if we were watching porno in our uniforms.

 

I dont think it is something Boy Scouts should do and if I emarrassed someone, perhaps now they will learn and follow the Flag code, its not that hard

[Hal_Crawford]

OGE:

I too am bothered when I see the flag incorrectly displayed. That said I am not surprised that the committee chair was offended by your changing it in the middle of the meeting. He probably saw it as a distraction from the business at hand.

 

I wonder if there is more to it than that. Could it also be that he is also bothered that there is a member of his committee that routinely arrives 60-45 minutes late for meetings? I understand you have a work commitment but I wonder what is the point of coming at all if you are going to be that late every time? To be honest, if I were the chair I think your late arrival to every meeting would bug the heck out of me.

 

Perhaps it is time for a friendly cup of coffee with the chair. Start with an apology for moving the flag. You didn't think it was disruptive but he did so say you're sorry.

 

I think the big issue you need to discuss is your role in these meetings. I do not know in what capacity you attend but is it essential that you be there? If your presence is crucial then perhaps they should change the meeting night/time so that you can fully participate. If your role is not that essential then perhaps you and the chair should agree on some other way in which you can best serve the district committee.

[cardinal50]

Several times, I have contacted the PR people at a company to voice my displeasure for the condition of their flag. In these cases, the flags were literally in shreds. My own company's Facilities Manager always looked nervous when I visited his office because, chances were, the flags were ready to be replaced. Once, I suggested that he could launder them once in a while and they would be presentable longer but he said he'd rather just replace them, which he did, even when they were just slightly dingy. As luck would have it, I was in charge of supply requisition so I always had a nice supply of US and Company flags on hand. Occasionally, a customer would compliment us for our company's respect for the flag.

 

Dave

[gcnphkr]

So I posed this to a scout last night during his EBOR. He thought about it for a bit and said that he would wait for a break or the end of the meeting to talk to the leader about the flag and find out why it was in the wrong place.

[OldGreyEagle]

Hal, when I was approached to be on the District Committee, I declined immediately as I knew my work committment would interfere with the meetings, the Chair, the same one we have now, said that I could come late, but he wanted my input when I was there.

 

 

[Hal_Crawford]

OGE:

So much for that theory. Still, I think a friendly cup of coffee is still in order.

 

He's ticked off about the flag, your ticked off about his e-mail. You guys should talk and get past it. For whatever reason the flag was incorrectly placed, maybe it was there when folks came into the room and no one noticed, maybe someone had a moment of cranial flatulence and put it in the wrong place. It happens.

 

Your moving the flag during the meeting bothered him for some reason. Maybe it embarrassed him because it was his screw up, maybe it was just a moment when it disturbed his thought process and it wouldn't have been a problem at any other time. Maybe he was in a bad mood about something unrelated and this just pushed his button. That happens too.

 

Sounds like you are both making more of this than it deserves and if you both let it fester it will remain a problem not just for you but the committee as a whole. Maybe there is an underlying issue you are not aware of. In spite of asking you to be on the committee and the clear understanding of your work conflict, your late arrivals may still be an issue. It's unreasonable I know, but people are like that sometimes. Ask him if it is a problem. At any rate, I doubt that it will get any better through e-mail discussion. Sit down and talk with him.

 

Good luck to both of you.

[Twocubdad]

One of my pet peeves are people who interrupt a flag ceremony with gags, coughs and shouted instructions at every little slip. Who is showing more respect to the flag, the group of 11-year-olds trying their best to do a proper flag ceremony or the people interrupting the ceremony. My theory is that the people who don't really understand how to show respect for the flag (and no, OGE, I'm not putting you in that group) are the ones who act like they should throw their bodies under the flag to keep it from touching the ground, as if they were taking a bullet for the President.

 

Particularly with the boys, we are TEACHING them the proper way to do things. If that means the corner of the flag sweeps the ground or the flag starts going up upside-down, it's a learning opportunity not a Federal offense. If they really tank and just can't figure it out, the SPL is to quietly step in and help them out. The attitude of respect and soleminity is more important to me than the mechanics. If they have the right attitude, the rest will come.

 

A lot of flag etiquette is geometry. This weekend a group of my younger boys were getting ready to serve as color guard for an Eagle ceremony. They had carried the flags forward and were scratching and sniffing as to which stanchion the American flag went into. When I asked them for the rule, the all immediately chimmed in "to the speaker's right" but when I asked which side that was, I got nothing but blank stares. I usually have to stop and think it through myself. It's an easy mistake.

 

Personally, OGE, I think the high road is to apologize to the guy. Maybe his email was out of line, but you have the opportunity to diffuse the situation and move on with it.

 

 

[Stosh]

Here's one that will be fingernails on the chalkboard for some and gut-wrenching for others.

 

Last year at a Civil War reenactment we did 1st MN's fight at Pickett's Charge. After the battle only a handful of men from the original 1,000 man regiment limped back to safety. The "Last Full Measure" is the phrase often used to described these men's sacrifice. Multiple times as we moved forward the flag bearer went down with the colors. Each time the crowed cheered as it was picked up and carried forward once more. Finally when all else failed, the colors were protected by the remaining few as it retreated back to the safety of the federal lines. As adjutant of the regiment I heard many comment it was the most impressive demonstration they have ever seen using the American flag. One woman came to me in tears and asked if any of the men were really hurt, and thanked me for a most impressive display of the importance of the sacrifice the men had showed with the flag. No one ever commented about the flag being on the ground multiple times.

 

It was also surprising that in the excitement of the event, no confederate soldier made an attempt to capture the flag from the Federal forces, which they could have easily broken scenerio and done so.

 

As representing one of the soldiers that survived, it was an emotional experience for me as well.

 

So, the next time the flag touches the ground accidentally, I will always remember seeing the flag lying there in the midst of the confusion flat on the ground and someone stepping up, grabbing it and silently moving it forward once more.

 

Stosh