Retiring Confederate Colors

[JoeBob]

I'm a Rebel, but I've learned to avoid re-fighting the War of Northern Aggression. The even-toned historical observations of many of y'all Northern Scouters have made me right proud.

 

I'd like to hope that if that conflict had ended differently, and this discussion was about retiring the Yankee Colors alongside a victorious Confederate States of America flag flown over a battelfield where both sides had lost warriors; that the South would have enough class to treat the Yankee flag representing their dead with honor.

 

Soldiers don't die for nebulous causes they don't understand; only 6% of Southerners even owned slaves and 120 New Yorkers were killed in the anti-conscription riots of 1863. Soldiers die for their friends and fellow warriors.

 

I married a Yankee from IL, but my kinfolk view it as a hostage situation. My wife and I aren't sure who is holding whom hostage. But it's fun to swap...

 

[le Voyageur]

When we retire a Confederate battle flag during historical re enactments, the ceremony is always done with great sadness, as we burn our Colours from the staff, in one last act of defiance to prevent them from falling into enemy handsthen, a final volley of rifle fire to honor those who wont be returning home with us

 

I would suggest for those performing the ceremony, doing this in the period garb of the Civil War, to keep it in it's proper contexts..(This message has been edited by Le Voyageur)

[scoutingagain]

Just to be clear on what a Yankee is; from wikipedia:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yankee

 

The term Yankee, sometimes abbreviated to Yank, has a few related meanings, often referring to someone of Northern U.S. origin or heritage. Within the United States its meaning has varied over time. Originally the term referred to residents of New England as used by Mark Twain in A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court. During and after the American Civil War its meaning expanded to include any Northerner or resident of the states formerly on the Union side of the war, and included anyone from the Northeast (New England, Mid-Atlantic, and upper Great Lakes states). After the Civil War the term gradually reverted to its earlier meaning of New Englander,[1] although Southerners often continue to use the extended meaning.

 

Outside the United States, Yank or Yankee is a slang term, sometimes derogatory, for any U.S. citizen.

 

 

To me a yankee is one who lives and has deep roots in northern New England and is characterized by stoic self reliance. Think of the Vermont dairy farmer or Maine Lobsterman.

 

 

SA

 

 

[packsaddle]

SUMTER! It's Sumter, not Sumpter.

 

Edited for JoeBob:

I married a yankee too. From NY, Long Island. My family in the South has long been sensitive about intermarriage between southerners and yankees. When I announced this, however, the only comment that slipped out of my old battleaxe aunt was, "She's probably Catholic." I responded with a lie, "no she's Jewish" and they recoiled as if I had just been discovered passed out drunk with my head in the toilet at the NY Port Authority bus terminal.

 

A fond memory. It's the simple things in life that often give the most pleasure. (This message has been edited by packsaddle)

[Stosh]

On the evening of the firing on Ft. Sumter, a small group of union loyalists moved into the fort at Key West, FL and held it throughout the war, supplied on the seaward side. Not that anyone really wanted to take the fort, it was pretty much ignored throughout the war. If ever the Federal forces wanted to take back the tourist area in downtown Key West, these men were ready...

 

In Europe a Yankee/Yank is someone from the US

 

In the northern states a Yankee is someone from the NorthEast

 

In the southern states there is no such thing as a Yankee, if they're from a northern state they're a damnyankee.

 

Like the European term being kinda derogatory, I'm thinking damnyankee fits in there somewhere too. LOL

 

On a more serious note, I would think that handing a retired flag to the Sons of Confederate Veterans would be more appropriate than dressing up in CSA uniforms and burning it on a staff. It's veterans still deserve the respect of quiet retirement and the SCV can do it the best. It doesn't need to be part of the ceremony, take the flag down, fold it respectfully in any manner (the US flag doesn't need to be folded triangularly either according to the US Flag Code) and after the ceremony see to it that it gets to the SCV if a representative can't attend.

 

Stosh

[acco40]

Soldiers don't die for nebulous causes they don't understand. Oh how I wish this were true but alas, it is not.

 

Seeing southerners write about the Civil War reminds me of the British writing about the English Civil War (American Revolution).

[packsaddle]

In both cases the good guys won.

[John-in-KC]

My friends in Texas will gladly debate you on that...

[Nike]

The English Civil War was fought between 1641 and 1651 between the those loayal to King Charles I and II (after C I's beheading) and the parliamentarians (Roundheads), won by Oliver Cromwell, the source of the Commonwealth and then the Protectorate. The Restoration of the legitimate monarch, King Charles II, occured in 1661 after a Scot governor general marched south and organized a new parliament.

 

Trivia: Virginia gained the nickname "The Old(est) Dominion" from its recognition of King Charles II way back in the 1640's.

 

Curiously, I have never read what the British call the American Revolution.

 

 

[Stosh]

damnyankees?

 

Stosh

[JoeBob]

A Yankee comes to visit south of the Mason Dixon Line, spends his money, and goes home.

A Damn Yankee! comes to visit and likes it so much that he stays.

 

acco44: Soldiers may enlist for politics or ideals, but they die for their friends. It's an honor thing, like treating the flag that represents dead warriors with respect.

 

Packsaddle: I married my Yankee because no self-respecting Southern girl would have anything to do with me. What's your excuse?

 

[packsaddle]

Pretty much the same. I sometimes announce, usually on our anniversary or something like that, that I am so glad I found someone hard up enough to take me.

And then she gets mad...go figure.

[OneHour]

... I can actually sympathize with the Confederate Colors debate. Where I came from, we had a civil war, North vs. South. The North prevailed unfortunately. The South defended a cause that we firmly believed in and so did the North. My father and father-in-law fought in the war as with many of my relatives; as a matter of fact, my father's sister who stayed behind in the North in 1950 when the DMZ was drawn, grew up and fought for the North while my father stood with the South army. To this date, the colors of the South, eventhough is no longer recognized as a sovereignty nation, is still flown in pockets of immigrants and respected/honored by those who stood under it. This is out-of-respect for the fallen friends/ buddies who fought besides them. It still brings tears to my father and father-in-law.

 

Win, lose, it's now part of history. The real losses are those who laid down their lives on either side!

 

Lord Baden Powell intented for scouting to be a vehicle for world peace. Let's honor that on BSA's 100th anniversary instead of open old wounds!

[John-in-KC]

Pack... change "hard up" to "wonderful". Give her valuable shiny metal and a rock. That should overcome "the look."

 

Not a guarantee though, but that's not a story for this Forum.

[packsaddle]

Hey, I already tried that. Every kind of shiny fishing lure you can think of and big chunks of volcanic obsidian from Oregon...didn't make much of an impression.