Adult conduct

[dawnydiesel]

I am a UC for a few packs. I did a charter presentation ceremony tonight at one of the pack meetings. Tonight, an adult parent (who used to be on the committee but recently stepped down to personal issues and drama) behaved so rudely and very un-scoutlike. She was not happy that her son did not pass uniform inspection, cursed at the pack secretary (in which 3 other parents overheard) and her teenage daughter crumpled up the piece of paper stating as to why the boy did not pass uniform inspection and threw it at the pack secretary.

 

First, where would I have rules and regulations of adult conduct? Second, I know what I WANT to do and what I more than likely need to do but I want to have all my ducks in a row before I proceed. There are at least 4 sets of parents ready to pull their boys from this pack because of this woman (and her family) and their constant drama.

[Twocubdad]

As a unit commissioner what do you believe your role should be in this situation?

 

(I know what I would WANT to do, too, but that wouldn't be very Scoutlike either.)

[Eagle92]

As an UC you have no authority to do anything as it is a CO matter. NOW if the CM, CC, COR, etc want to remove the person and/or family, then you can give advice.

 

Basically a unit can refund the remaining registration fee and pack/den dues, fill out the transfer paperwork (giving a COPY to the CS or parent), or better yet a copy of their SCOUTNET records, double checking to make sure the SCOUTNET records and Pack records coincide, and write a letter stating WHY you are removing hte individual from the charter, sending a copy to the scout office.

 

Before anything happens though the PACK leaders need to #1 make sure they want to do this as it WILL stir up a hornets nest and leave bad feelings #2 have the support of the COR & IH since they ultimately own the Pack, and #3 make sure the DE is informed as a courtesy because the DE will be getting a late night phone call from this parent. Had to deal with a removal of a leader, so I been there, done that, lost the hearing from an outraged volunteer.

 

EDITED: the COR can overrule the decision to remove the family from the unit over everyone EXCEPT the IH. And then the IH's word IS the final word on the matter, so if the PAck wants to do this, then the IH needs to be on board.(This message has been edited by eagle92)

[dawnydiesel]

The CO won't be an issue as they clearly have said they don't want to be involved with decisions such as this. They believe it's up to the pack leadership.

 

The CM wants everyone to get along, the CC wants them out, and the majority of the committee wants them out. Nobody wants to be the one to put their behind on the line as they don't want to be involved per se but have asked me what to do here. With this not being the first time, several parents are ready to just leave. (The husband/father is a Web leader) This is only the proverbial camel straw situation as there's been other drama for darn near a year leading up to this.

 

This isn't my first time removing a leader BUT it is the first time with the adult in question not being in a leadership/committee position.

[Eagle92]

OK the pack needs to decide A) can they afford to lose a Webelos Leader or B) Can they hold out until the son crosses over to Boy Scouts. If they can hold out, that may be the best way out, with ample warning to whatever troop the son joins. If the problem needs to be solved immediately, the someone in the PACK needs to grab the bull by the horns.

[Crew21_Adv]

Dawnydiesel,

 

 

Greetings!

 

I've stated before in this forum, and it may (or may not) be applicable to the unit that you commission.

 

It's amazing how Cubs or Boy Scouts can fight during one den meeting or weekend campout. Then a week later, they can't wait to play video games together. But when adults fight, it can destroy a Pack, Troop or Crew.

 

In my units (as with most Packs and Troops), we always have drama, constantly. The SM and ASMs and Committee don't always agree 100 percent, but we pretty much agree on some very similar foundations. But our drama is not always from the same people in our units, and minor issues can be discussed thru for the good of the Pack or Troop.

 

Sometimes (granted, not always) if there was more dialogue and communications in the world, there would be less wars in the world. Take that down to a Pack or Troop; if everyone communicated, there would be fewer battles and less drama.

 

There are very few guidelines about removing membership. The only one I can read is for youth may be removed if they are a threat to other youth, per chapter one of the G2SS. (Probably more physical threat, violence, language and maybe teenage influences as narcotics/alcohol). I cant find anything in writing about adult member removal, besides the obvious G2SS violations of deviance and/or violence.

 

But this is the angry family members of a youth member. Its difficult, because the parent(s) are behaving inappropriately, but the Cub Scout seems to be behaving.

Have they been told that their disruptive and rude behavior is undesirable? Has anyone in the Pack dialogued with them about their adult behavior, or does the committee just want to be rid of the problem?

 

Probably the CC/CM should have more dialogue as to what the problems really are? Such as; When I look at the Cub Scout inspection sheet, I see a Total Uniform Inspection Score and the only rating I see is a perfect score is 100 points. I dont see a Pass on the form, but I expect the opposite of pass is to fail. Sounds like the Pack said the boy was a failure in his Uniform Inspection.

 

I see some Scout uniforms that I would not be too proud of. And I would recognize very few Scouts as scoring 100 percent on their score. Maybe the 100 percents deserve an added recognition for precisely following instructions. But after the handful of 100 perfect scoring Scouts. After that every other Scout is layered from 99 to 0. But where is thepassed, not passed or failing score? Where can the unit say that a Scout did not pass?

 

Id be disappointed too, if a Pack Secretary told my son that he failed a uniform inspection that (he maybe couldnt attain a 100 score) he could not fail.

 

If the family is vocal and disruptive for other reasons. Yes. Then maybe its time for them to try another youth organization, little league baseball, Pop Warner football, soccer, Boys and Girls Club, etc..

 

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

 

[Eagledad]

Hey, it doesn't matter the situation or the past of anyone, tere is an unwritten standard code of conduct we all should expect from each other. Its that simple. If someone crosses that line, then there needs to be a meeting with that person to help them understand. If that person doesn't agree, then nip the problem in the bud and keep them from causing the problem again.

 

Trust me, it is not worth putting up with this kind of stress and abuse just to hold on to a leader.

 

Barry

[JoeBob]

You can't let your Scouts believe that this type of behaviour is acceptable.

[Lisabob]

You won't find a written behavioral guideline for adults. I always thought that part of the point of being an adult is that you shouldn't NEED such a formal guideline anymore. Of course we see on this board often enough, that some adults are just over-grown 2 year olds, pitching tantrums when they don't get their way.

 

The pack is within their rights to remove these folks if the issue cannot be resolved in other ways. If the boy is not a problem, another option would be collectively to shun these folks when they act up.

 

What I mean: We had a case where a den leader couple (husband/wife) caused serious problems in the pack and could not behave themselves. They were removed from their leadership positions (much drama involved), but told that they were welcome to keep their boy in the pack (nice kid, not his fault). To our surprise they did so, but the mother in particular took every opportunity to bad-mouth whatever the pack was doing, often in front of the boys, at den and pack meetings. So finally, the rest of the leadership and the other parents in that den simply refused to play her game. Every time she'd start on some negative tirade, the other adults would look her in the eye, tell her "I'm sorry but this is not appropriate behavior" and get up and move somewhere else.

 

Eventually she got the message. For a while, these two parents would drop off their boy for den/pack meetings and then go sit in the hallway where (as far as I could tell) they griped to each other. But they did stay with the pack for another 2 years after that, all the way through their son's cross-over to boy scouts, and they stopped being a source of trouble for everybody else.

 

Doing something like that requires a little bit of coordination (though we never really talked about it - it just evolved after one person started doing it and others caught on) and some spine among your adults. And it probably works better in some circumstances than others. (For example, many of the people in that particular den had been friends with this couple, so there was an existing, positive relationship. I have to add it did end and/or alter some of those friendships though.)

 

Remember though, as UC, it isn't your job to make anything happen - it is your job to offer friendly input where solicited. If the pack chooses not to confront this person because confrontation WILL bring more drama in the short term, then your job is to help them manage the issue as best they can.

 

 

[Beavah]

Yah, I'm with Eagledad. Problem parents do so much damage to units that it's best to go through da short term pain to avoid da long term agony.

 

If this is an ongoin' issue rather than just "a bad night", and they've had a prior sit-down talkin' to, it might be time for the exit interview. Problem is, dawnydiesel, it ain't your show as a commish. You can advise, but they've got to step up.

 

That havin' been said, as a commish I have occasionally played a bigger role in helpin' a parent move on. Generally speakin', though, the role is to help the family find another pack or youth program to move to. As a commish, you're the one givin' them the face-saving out. "This pack clearly isn't working out for you, so I'll help you find another." Yah, sure, and backin' up the unit folks when the family appeals to you - "No, unfortunately, staying here is no longer an option. This pack has made it's decision, and the BSA supports the pack leadership, they have the right to insist you leave. But we can work to find a cub pack that's a better fit for you."

 

Then be very careful where yeh move 'em too, eh?

 

B

 

[scoutldr]

So, how do you decide which "other" pack to foist them upon? That's just transferring the problem. We do that all the time in the Gov, because no one has the guts (nor the time to invest) to fire anyone.

[Beavah]

Oh, more than half da time they just leave, eh? Otherwise yeh find a strong pack that can handle 'em and lay down some conditions up front.

 

Of course, if yeh don't have any BSA units to take 'em, yeh can always foist 'em on da YMCA.

 

B

 

[evmori]

As a UC, you have no power to do anything.

 

This women & her daughter should have been escorted out of the room by the Committee Chair and the Scoutmaster and told that this type of behavior is unacceptable & will not be tolerated and if it occurs again, they will be escorted from the building and asked to leave and if they refuse the authorities will be contacted to deal with the situation.

[Nike]

Can you stand the Dad-Webelos Leader? Is it just his wife and daughter?

[True Believer]

Why is it that it is always the "Big" boys/girls who don't know how to play right?

 

As a Commissioner, I would think you need to leave it up to the Pack. Perhaps, "check in" with the leadership to see what they have done in the past regarding this situation, because IT IS DETRIMENTAL TO THE BOYS AND TO THE PACK. It is your role to observe and advise.

 

As a SM, I have very little tolerance for problem adults. It's not in my nature to suffer these folks. But, it IS my job to protect the Scouts and hold fast the Oath and Law. I have one woman who is a severe trouble maker, gossip, and slanderer (I am not exaggerating). She tests all of us adult leaders. The problem is, as is hinted at above, if you are going to take on such a person, you have to be prepared to be the ONLY ONE doing it, even if others say they will support you. When push comes to shove, your supporters may lose their voice (among other things). So be absolutely sure you are willing to do this.

 

In my case, I have had the active support of many adult leaders and parents. We have successfully deemed this woman persona non grata...although that has not completely stopped her.

 

Bottom line, the Pack leadership must be absolutely sure of what it is going to do, how they are gong to do it, and be united. If this cannot be done, there will be huge, long lasting consequences which will hurt the program more than if you just let it alone.