Cell Phones

[asm 411]

Nothing formal came out of the discussion just an understanding that Scouts could bring cell phones to campouts at their own risk and that using them except in the case of an emergency was not necessary. The most important part is that the PLs would police the situation.

 

As far as I can tell this has been very effective. I see the occasional cell phone used to take pictures or as a watch/alarm clock but that is it.

 

There is probably texting going on when there is no one looking on but it is no longer my worry. The PLs have either taught their Scouts that there is better things in life than texting or how to be good and sneaky about it.

 

 

[eagle1977]

I think we as adult leaders should be in the position of educating the scouts by setting the proper example. No electronics should be no electronics for everyone. However, I am not naive enough to think that is possible. There are reasons for some Scouters to be connected back to the real world because of jobs and other possible emergencies. However, these adults should be respectful enough of the program to step aside and conduct their business quietly.

 

Eagle732 couldn't the same warning have been accomplished with the use of a two-way radio? This would limit the communication to that between you and the PL or SPL only.

[asm 411]

In truth I would rather pitch my cell phone in the lake. Most times I leave it in the van once we get to camp and check it once in the morning and evening discreetly.

 

 

[Hal_Crawford]

A few years ago I was working at a stage show put on by a teen company for an audience of children. Before the show the director came on stage to tell the kids about the show and how the teens in the company had developed it. About 30 seconds in her cell phone goes off. I remember thinking, "wow, that's embarrassing". Then she looked at the phone and said "Oh, this is important" and proceeded to take the call; onstage in front of a couple hundred kids. She spoke for a minute or two (that seems like an hour on stage) before hanging up and continuing her talk to the audience.

 

With examples like that, what can we expect from our youth.

 

 

[Eagle732]

"Couldn't the same warning have been accomplished with the use of a two-way radio?"

Sure, maybe if I had a set of radios and they were in range. However only the SPL and PLs are allowed to have phones and only for the purpose of contacting me. I trust that they are using them for this purpose only. Often one of my ASMs will lend his phone to a PL when needed since the Scouts usually don't bring them on trips. So far this has worked for me and so I'll continue the policy until it becomes a problem and then I'll reevaluate.

[Twocubdad]

The problem I have is nothing is just a cell phone anymore.

 

We've had a no electronics policy in our troop for several years. Adults' gizmos should be used sparingly and away from the Scouts. Last year some of the older boys convinced me that they should be allowed to use their MP3 players at night in their tents to listen to music as the went to sleep. I'm thinking Ipods or knockoffs with earphones. With the urging of several committee members but without going through a whole big policy debate, we gave the older guys the okay.

 

In classic give-'em-an-inch fashion, one of the boys brings his Iphone to use. Instead of simply listening to music, he's online surfing some very inappropriate photos and texting his girlfriend with similarly inappropriate requests for when he returned home. Needless to say, the phone was taken and turned over to his parents and the troop is back to a total no electronics policy.

 

I didn't sign up to monitor kid's Internet use and their communications with their girlfriends. I can only imagine the bru-ha had this kid decided to share his photos with some of the new Scouts. I don't buy all the safety arguments either. Some how we've survived all these years without instant access to Dopler radar. The siren in the top of the dining hall still works. And I can live without hole-by-hole updates of how Tiger is doing (which we're much more likely to get that weather reports).

 

Another war story: in another galaxy (i.e. an out-of-council camp)a Scout from a troop in our council had his cell phone taking pictures OUTSIDE the shower house but walked in the shower house with it. Another Scout, a little guy, saw the flash then the phone in the shower house and assumed the older Scout was taking photos of him in the shower. The little guy called his mother (on his cell phone no doubt) and told her someone had taken photos of him naked. The mom went bezerk. Called the local sheriff and had him meet her at camp. Of course there were no incriminating photos on the camera, but the mom insisted they could have been uploaded to the Internet and deleted. They finally decided to take the card out of the kid's phone and destroy it. I'm not sure how all this was resolved, but apparently someone pointed out there was no evidence anything bad had taken place and cooler heads prevailed.

 

As a parent, I appreciate my sons having a few electron-free day. If nothing else it reminds them they can live without being plugged-in 24/7. A good friend of mine and an ASM every couple months just pack up all the GameBoys and DVDs. He feels his son will get into a cycle where he spends more and more time with these things until it's just overwhelming. So he just pulls the plug.

 

ASM 411 -- go with your gut. I can tell you from first-hand experience throwing your cell phone in the lake can be a truely cathartic experience. And way cheaper than therapy or even medications. Go for it!

[Narraticong]

Way back in my youth, some guys I knew might sneak an "adult" magazine into their camp gear. Sometimes got caught and had the offensive material confiscated. I always wondered what the adults did with that stuff after taking it...

 

Should all reading material then have been banned? Is there a difference if a kid wants to read Shakespeare versus a Superman Comic? Same with electronics, in my mind. The boy, or his parents, paid for his camp experience. Isn't it his to enjoy how he sees fit? As long as he obeys "lights out" at the same time as others, is it wrong for him to listen to his music before bed?

 

A totally true story- we have an older boy in our troop who is like the "Pied Piper" for the younger boys. He is also an incredible pianist and has an incredible knowledge of classical music. At a campout last year, all the boys were sitting around a table with him telling stories. The talk turned to popular music. Next thing I knew, he had his cell phone out and was playing Beethoven for them to listen to. Perhaps the first time some of these boys had heard this type music. And their role model was telling them it was "cool". There is no way I would have walked up and told him to put it away. That was an incredible mentoring moment.

 

My long winded point is this- judge every case on its merits. Blanket rules of "no electronics", "no sheath knives", etc. do not teach our youth to make good decisions. All these rules teach them is to find ways to get around them, much like our politicians do today. Instead, we need to lead by example. Talk about when it might be inappropriate to have elctronics out and why. Then have the PLC deal with those who offend. In other words, teach the boys that the reason something is done is because it is "the right thing to do". The desire to do things a certain way must come from within themselves, not out of fear of punishment.

[mmhardy]

In my view the rants against possessing cell phones is a pointless exercise. They are here and will not go away.

 

In a psychology article I read its noted; The history of the consequences of [banning something] is well-known. First, they fail. Secondly, while the activities are banned they become a magnet toward the banned item. Thirdly, the banned activities become a source of corruption.

 

Using this as an opportunity to teach the proper use of cell phones, GPS units, VHF radios may prove to be a lifesaver. If you dont want to use a cell phone at a campout then turn it off. But dont pontificate to another adult about possessing a potential life saving tool.

 

[asm 411]

That's it! All you Scouts hand in your Official Boy Scout Handbooks, Youth Leader Handbooks and Merit Badge pamphlets. They are no longer allowed! You may not look at them. You are in extra big trouble if you even think about reading the information inside. Period. Any Scout or Scouter caught with a Boy Scout publication of any kind or vintage will have it confiscated. You will have to sing at the end of the campout or meeting to get it back and it will only be returned to your parents ( Scouters included ) with a written letter from them stating that you will not ever bring it back to any Boy Scout event no matter what. If you violate this rule twice I will be forced to take a corner off your current rank patch. And I mean it.

 

This is officially posted by the Scoutmister Misterscout!

 

Yep, I think that will do it. I will email it, post in the meeting place and read it word for word at the start of every meeting. That should get them sneaking the books everywhere and reading them in their sleeping bags and not getting any sleep for several months on campouts.

 

Special note: mmhardy I hope you take this in the vein it was intend. I hope I have not offended you in anyway and if so I would like to apologize in advance. The idea struck me as funny and I you get chuckle out of it too. In truth I agree with you 100% that banning an item just makes it more interesting to the Scouts.

[IM_Kathy]

our troop - boys no phones, no music players (though instruments are allowed), and no video games.

 

at summer camp unless an adult HAS to have his cell phone for work or just call younger child at home at night those are the only ones that are there and on... rest give out the camp number for emergencies. Now for a weekend campout at campground X where there is only a staffed phone during certain hours most adults have their phones with them and on.

 

my husband has only had to call me once for an emergency and we were glad he did because it was about road conditions... we had a quick adult meeting and the one adult with internet on his phone double checked road conditions and we talked with SPL and we headed home early before conditions got worse.

 

I'm also the emergency contact for a good friend of mine who is single with no real family... he finally had back surgery this past winter, but before then I'd get calls from him in the middle of the night needing taken to the hospital or for me to get someone to get him there -- when he's in that much pain it takes enough out of him to call me - no way he could go through all his othe numbers. One of the times I was camping with my girl scout troop I was down to my last person to try before I finally got someone who was in town and able to get him there... and one other time I was unable to and it was a pricey ambulance bill.

 

so, cellphones are important for adults to have when there is no other phone available... also nice to have so the boys can pass them around in the car on the drive home to arrange a pick up if we are early or late.

 

only other rule that our troop allows broken for adults only is the pop rule... only way boys can have pop during a campout is in bug juice. there are a few leaders that pop is their coffee... I'm one of them... we allow it. One time a boy commented on it with another leader - scout master said "because if the adults didn't come we couldn't do this, so we let them have some special privledges"

[ordealarrowman]

For adults, I think that they should get to chose whether or not to bring their own phone. The SM can discourage use if the adult is using it too much. I think that cell phones are a good tool on campouts in case of a emergency, but that's it. Period. I really don't like to see adults on a phone just chatting for no reason, especially when it's banned for boy to have phones.

[SctDad]

For our Cub Scouts, we HIGHLY reccommend that they leave all electronics at home. We also tell them that it is their responsibility and that we are NOT responsible for ANY damages.

 

I have only seen two Nintendo DS's show up in camp. Both were not a problem, because I asked the boys to put it away and only use it at night if they are having problems sleeping. No problems to date.

 

As for cell phones, I ask that the youth leave them at home, as they have parents usually with them. I also ask that the adults put phones on silent.

 

We did a pack campout with another pack and their leader would call me when we were ready to go to the next event to make sure that we were ready. It worked out good. Could we have used radio's? Yes if we had thought about that.

 

I agree that things should taken on a case by case basis.

[sandspur]

OK, its not the cell phone or no cell phone debate that concerns me as the comments by a few that if they see adults with cell phones they will confiscate them.

The SM is in charge of the program at the troop level but is not a dictator. A SM that acts like this will not have many adult volunteers to help them and will ultimately fail.

If an adults cell use is disruptive, it is entirely appropriate to ask them to cease. But take the phone away? These are adults, not Jr. High students.

 

[NancyB]

My son was at little sioux when it was destroyed by the tornado. for 6 hours we did not know if he was alive or dead. Most of the other parents had the same problem as us. We did not know that he was alive until 12:30 a.m. when the hospital called us. Several parents were much luckier. The EMTs in the ambulances that were transporting their sons either let the scouts call their parents with their personal cell phones or called the parents themselves. I had 6 hours of he*l because my son did not have a cell phone. I would never wish that on another parent. Until you go through something like that, you cannot know the agony of waiting for those many hours and the emotions you go through whenever another ambulance pulls up to the hospital or you hear another rumor of additional deaths.

 

He now takes his to all overnight functions. the scoutmaster of his troop, whose son was in the building that was destroyed, is ok with this b/c he was another parent who didn't know if his son was alive or dead. What we do is change his phone at those times so that he can only call his dad or me or 911. He cannot text. We have the password so we are the only ones who can change that setting. Because our troop had 3 boys at that camp, many of the parents are doing this with no problems. If a scoutmaster did not allow him to take his cell phone with these restrictions, then he will not go on the trip. for us, it is a safety issue, not a convenience issue.

 

Last year, a friend's adult son disappeared while riding his motorcyle and was believed to have crashed somewhere. They were able to locate his body when the cell phone company used the magic of the gps in the cell phone which was in his pants pocket. There is no way of knowing how long it would have taken to locate his body without the cell phone. I would imagine that the same technique could be used to locate a missing scout.

[lrsap]

As a Webelos 2 DL, this is my opinion (and that's all any of these are, really. As far as I know "cell phone usage" has never appeared in any official BSA publication). Carrying a cell phone can be an excellent opportunity to teach responsibility and respect of others than an outright ban on their existence.

 

I have had a scout in my den since he was a Tiger and I was his leader. From day 1 this scout has had a cell phone in his possession. What a 1st grader needs one for is beyond me, but that's another issue. I think I have actually seen the thing 3 times in 4 years. He is fully aware, and his mother supports, the fact that this phone is HIS responsibility. Basically, "If you lose it don't come crying to us". It has also been addressed that he is to use it respectfully, and only when necessary. Like I said, 3 times in 4 years. I think that's pretty good.

 

My question is this. And sincerely, please correct me if I'm wrong. Like I said, I'm a W2DL with no Troop experience as a boy or adult. But isn't the BS program meant to be boy-led, and excluding a safety or extreme issues, the rules for conduct not covered in official publication created by the boys? I appreciate the view of "There is the book, and there is reality", but if the SM continually comes down with edicts of "You can't do this, you can't do that" doesn't that take away from the ability of boys to truly create their own program?