Totin Chip

[cathyjh]

Should a Scout lose a corner of the Chip if the closed knife accidently falls out of the pocket? Or if the Scout accidently leaves a closed knife on the table?

[vol_scouter]

If the knife is closed, definitely not for either. Every once in a while, my knife falls out of my pocket as I am getting something else out. For younger boys, dropping items out of a pocket is far from rare. As to leaving it on a table, merely warn him to care for his knife.

[HICO_Eagle]

I'd probably harass him a little so he remembers to secure his gear in the future but I doubt I'd take a corner for either offense.

[eagle1977]

gotta agree that if the knife is closed there is no foul. I think we are expecting too much from boys if we do not allow them some simple mess ups! They are, after all, learning to be better citizens I don't think we should beat them up every step of the way.

 

Just MHO

[gwd-scouter]

Just curious, is it everyone's practice to cut a corner of a guys totin' chip if he misuses his knife?

[evmori]

I agree with the others.

 

 

[asm 411]

In the troop I was in as a boy the practice of removing totin' chip corners was used.

 

In our current troop removing a corner is more of joke. We will hear a lot more comments about it during meal preparation times than when whittling or carving or cutting rope...

 

If a Scout steps out of line with a knife he gets a free trip around the campsite with the Scoutmaster. They have a short discussion about knife safety. Why wait for four mistakes before aggressively addressing a safety issue?

 

Most of our Scouts don't carry their Totin' Chip cards once they reach First Class. No hard fast rule on that just seems to be the way it is. Typically knife and fire safety are two of the first topics covered on a Scouts first campout with us either by the Troop Guide or his patrol leader.

[SSScout]

"Cutting Corners" is definitely a unit affectation. Warnings, PLC meetings, SM and ASM judgements, I've heard of many different versions of Totin' Chip discipline. The standard should be safety first and mature behavior. Pocket knives falling out of pockets is a mishap. Wish I still had my uncles knife that fell out somewhere on the AT near Pine Knob Shelter. Leaving it on the table after use (folded up) is perhaps purposeful, but not a safety issue (it was folded up?). Waving a closed knife around to show off a birthday present (saw this one) warrants a warning and talk-to about Scout behavior, even if it was closed. Throwing knife target practice (heard about it) warrants instant T/C revocation.

The need , always, is to impress on the Scout during T/C (or, come to think about it, Whittlin' Chit with Cubs) training the importance to "respect the edge" and treat the tool with mature respect, not childish glee. That can lead to injury and regret.

 

If you have to revoke, don't forget to "debrief" and remind the Scout they may re-earn the T/C the next time around...

 

Here I was at a Cub Pack Pop Corn award ceremony. "Jeffrey sold umpteen tons of popcorn and he is awarded this POCKET KNIFE!!" (cheers). Jeffrey shakes the CM hand, takes the small box back to his table, opens it up and proceeds to unfold all the blades to show his dad and mom and Denmates. Starts to wave it round like a Starwars Tie Fighter. I walked over (yes, in the middle of the ceremony. I could see this going to a bad place. There were other awards to come!)and said "Jeffery? That's a fine knife. Can I show you how to handle this safely, please?" As the Pack UC, I was known had some clout. "Thank you. Here's how to close it right. See? No fingers missing!. Now, I think maybe dad should help you keep this sharp item safe and help show you how to use it , okay?" Dad looks at me and nods his head, silently saying 'thank you' as he takes the knife from me. Two weeks later, I had the Bears and Webelos in Mr. Jefferysdads rec room, teaching Whittlin' Chit. Gave the Dads copies of the W/C curriculum the District had developed and in a couple hours had eight Cubs reciting "respect the edge" and saying "thank you" everytime anything, much less a knife, was handed them.

 

T/C: SM or ASM teach the PLC and TG. TG or PL teach the Tenderfoots.

[gcnphkr]

I think it is a silly custom. Teach the boys how to safely use a tool. When they use it improperly I correct them. If they abuse it then I admonish them and remove the weapon. I've never asked for a card.

[Eagledad]

>>I think it is a silly custom. Teach the boys how to safely use a tool. When they use it improperly I correct them. If they abuse it then I admonish them and remove the weapon. I've never asked for a card.

[gcnphkr]

Hyperbole: Deliberate exaggeration for effect.

[Stosh]

Our boys take the Totin' Chit training every year. As far as our troop is concerned Safety is #1 and too much training isn't an issue. Just like the swim test, it is an annual "requirement". If a boy is doing something incorrect with his knife, axe or saw, the card is torn up and he's reminded of the next class that will be coming up. Retraining is not something that the boy will be singled out when the NSP gets their training because everyone including the JASM's will be in the class with him. Our boys all know this process and there has never been a issue where a card was torn up.

 

Stosh

 

[JoeBob]

Only slightly on topic:

 

Way back in the Dark Ages, I was a member of Weapons Platoon, Alpha Co, 2nd BN, 75th Inf(Ranger). We were waiting to Ex-Fil an AO during Winter Warfare Training somewhere in Alaska, and were more bored than usual. One man, call him Goody, took out his K-Bar and began to throw it at a roll of snow-fencing situated in the middle of our squad. A K-Bar more closely resembles a hatchet than a throwing knife, and the springy roll of snow fence provided lots of recoil force as the knife rebounded in un-predictable directions making us all scramble to avoid injury. We were cussing and complaining, but secretly enjoying the entertainment, when a reporter for Stars and Stripes walked up. Goody hurled his knife at the roll of fencing and, for the first time in about 20 throws, it stuck solidly in the wood.

Reporter: "Wow! Can you do that every time?"

Goody, with a totally straight face: "Yes, sir. We have knife throwing specialists in every squad!"

The assembled Rangers were all deadpan and silent until the reporter walked off scribbling in his notebook. Then we all pummeled Goody.(This message has been edited by JoeBob)

[cathyjh]

To add to the story - The Assistant Scout Master did cut the corner of the card. The Scout stated the knife fell out of his pocket but it was too dark to find it. He figured he would look in the morning but got picked up early and didn't get it. He felt bad that he lost it and was really happy when the announcement was made if anyone lost a knife, until the Assistant Scoutmaster cut the corner and would not listen to his story. During this same campout two other Scouts recieved a warning because they were actually widdling near other Scouts but did not have a corner cut on their card. This Assistant Scoutmaster does not have any kids in the troop - he is in his early 20's. The SPL is upset because the issue was never brought up to him or the other patrol leaders.

[Knot Head]

I wish they would ditch the totin' card and move requirement 2c from 2nd class to TF: "On one campout, demonstrate proper care, sharpening, and use of the knife, saw, and ax, and describe when they should be used." We do this on the first campout after crossover.

 

Then just say if you are a tenderfoot you can carry a knife but not before.

 

If a scout is using his knike improperly we warn him once and then take it away for a time. The cards get wet, lost, forgotten and we frankly just don't worry about the cards. We will take a knife away for violations. Multiple offense and you have to repeat the safety course. Sometimes the knife is lost for an hour if they violate a blood circle, longer if the offense deserves it although it has been years since we had a major knife offense. That boy was kicked out of the troop for throwing an open knife at a tent when a scout was inside the tent. No second chance. Gone in 60 seconds.(This message has been edited by knot head)