Unit to District Volunteer Transitions

[Beavah]

In da parent thread, packsaddle describes a long history of seemingly random bureaucratic changes and hurdles in his district Eagle process that I'm sure many folks recognize. Puttin' that together with gherrmano's bit, it seemed like a good time to spin off this topic. Havin' been a district and council fellow for a lot of years, I've seen what packsaddle describes happen a lot. Advancement Committees get the worst of it, and sometimes commissioner corps, but it happens everywhere. In some ways it's da Peter Principle - good unit scouters rise to the level of incompetence as district folks .

 

I reckon it happens because the skill set and mind set to be a good district volunteer is very, very different from what is required to be a good unit volunteer. A good unit volunteer is typically in charge. If they're doin' advancement, they set up da systems and rules for their unit and enforce them. If they're managing adult volunteers, they set up the parameters for each volunteer and set the expectations and direct. If they're in charge of outings/safety, same deal. That's what makes for success in a unit program.

 

At district, we're not in charge of anything. Our job isn't to set up rules or enforce or manage or direct at all. If da unit volunteer is "dad", we're "grandpa". We're there as extra hands of support, some wisdom to turn to when frustrated, that sort of thing. We're cheerful support services.

 

Lots of times when unit scouters transition to district jobs, nobody does a good orientation with 'em. To my mind it's a much harder transition than from being a 17 year old scout to an 18 year old scouter. Da biggest error is that they all tend to want to do what they did as unit scouters - set up systems and be in charge. Advancement Committees get the worst of this just because units are heavily involved in advancement so folks come in with very firm notions of how their unit does things right. We don't have da same issue with Fundraising, because most units aren't doin' their own FOS drives, so they don't tend to come in with da same "this is the way it is to be done" notion. But you'll see it other places like Membership where someone wants to get everyone to do webelos transition or roundup "their" way because it worked well in their unit (and maybe not even that well!).

 

I reckon it's this bit that causes a lot of what packsaddle described, eh? Every new DAC comes in and has to set up a new system and be in charge. So we get new paperwork system on top of new paperwork system, all handed down with authority and da poor scouts and unit scouters runnin' around tryin' to cope. That's a sign of a poor district and weak district volunteer selection/trainin'. A proper district volunteer understands that rather than set up systems and direct, his/her role is to provide service by adapting to the needs of each unit and customizing a way of supporting them. If they can't come to training, take training to them. If they are trippin' over da Eagle paperwork chase, streamline it and ease the burden. They're our customer, and da customer is always right, and it's never the customer's fault.

 

Maybe we need a stronger new district volunteer orientation / reprogramming training. I dunno.

 

What do the rest of you see out there?

 

Beavah

 

[OldGreyEagle]

Perhaps it is an error in communication, or perhaps an expectation on my part, but when I started off lo so many years ago, I thought District and Council people were selected from those who had done a good job in a unit and were being "promoted" up through demonstration of skill and ability.

 

I didnt know you could be on a Council Committee just by asking. Some one eventually told me the District was so hard up for bodies all you had to do was prove you could breathe and you would be taken. Just as quality leader selection is imperative for units, so much so for District and Council positions and I am not sure I see it being done. Nor am I sure much a selection is possible with a volunteer pool that seemingly shrinks faster than the polar ice cap (SIC!)

 

The transition pitfall I had was when I started with District and COuncil activities, was I thought the people on the committee understood the program, turns out most had never been a scout, or had been assocaued with a scout unit. If you know how its supposd to be done, don;t be afraid to say so up front and quick, I didnt and regret it(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

[Eagle92]

Yep transitioning from unit to District was hard, especially for me. I got "promoted" to the district committee at the ripe old age of 21. Like OGE I thought that folks on the committee knew their stuff to, and was a little intimidated my the others, especially the age factor. Here I was a college student on the committee workign with lawyers, business leaders, and a local politician. But over time I realized what needed to be done, and started voicing my opinions. While some on the committee did ignore me due to my age, usually the ones without Scouting experience, others did. What helped me come around was the conversations with my DE. I was interested in being a pro, and talked a lot with him about the district and profession. So good communication may be a factor.

 

Another reason why new district folks have problems, IMHO, is that they are used to doing things one way, the way their unit has done things, and cannot open up to the variety of ways to implement program that a unit has. Some folks are set in their ways, and cannot adapt. My personal reminder to be open to new ideas and not show favortism to the best unitin the district ( )was buying a new uniform shirt that became my "district shirt."

 

One problem I've seen recently is that you have experienced district folks discounting the ideas of newer members. I've seen folks on the district level for 10+ years state "we can't do that" and We've doen it before and it didn't work" etc, etc. One meeting that I missed almost had a fight break out between two of the members over how to run a camporee! This has been a real challenge especially for me. The "old guard" are very good friends who I worked with or recruited back when I was a DE. They have been a foundation for the district through all the dark times, and it is because of them the district has survived. But the "young turks" are also good friends of mine, I've gotten many involved with the OA, and do have some great ideas to create a program for the youth. This group is younger and has more recent expereince working directly with the youth.

 

I would love it if they stopped bickering and worked together.

[Lisabob]

District training? What district training? Seriously, I've been involved on and off with our district for about 5 years and not one time has anybody mentioned anything about district training. A different council offered commissioner training and I found out about it and went on my own, just so I could better understand what UCs were really supposed to do, but that's it. Seriously, is there really training out there for district committee folks, and is it any good?

 

In general, yes I agree. The transition between unit and district/council is a challenge. More so when no guidance is provided, and when the folks "above" you don't have much of a structure or clue either, and when the units are so used to an anemic district staff that any attempt on the part of new district volunteers to act differently (read, engage the units) raises hackles.

[GKlose]

About a year ago, I registered with a troop committee about the same time that I agreed to join the district committee as membership chair. There's been no training, and I've spent pretty much the last year trying to figure out things as I go along.

 

It started with me asking as many questions I could think of -- to the Key3. They've been patient and helpful.

 

As a troop membership chair, I did something that made sense to me, but seems to have surprised others: I wrote a membership plan. It started with a bunch of random thoughts about what could we do better (such as reconnecting with the community, the CO and the "feeder pack") and as I wrote them down, it made sense to fit them in an outline a certain way.

 

The DE, all along, has been coaching me about the tactics of district membership. We talk about goals -- for the council, for "quality district" and for the DE himself -- at every district committee meeting. But nobody has every linked those goals and the tactics with a strategic plan. Turns out the council has a strategic plan. The council membership chair has a (sort of) strategic memo. But nothing at the district level. So that's my next step. I'm not sure, yet, what this strategic plan is going to say, but my goal is to have it done by fall.

 

One thing I've found out in the last year is that the district committee was weak to non-existent for well over a year. Most units in the district seem to ignore the district committee. I started the year with having my email pretty much ignored by units, to having almost a 100% response (without nagging) on a recent email about Webelos transition issues. Mostly, I feel like that by the time I really learn how to do the job I'll be ready to move on to something else.

 

(which is fine with me -- if my "legacy" is to leave the next district membership chair with my strategic plan, so that he or she can develop their own framework, then that's fine by me -- it's more than what I had to start with).

 

I recently met with the DE and an assistant SE for the council, where we specifically talked about "what do you need from us." I asked if we could arrange a "workshop" for district membership chairs. Just to share ideas. I'd like to know what has worked and what hasn't worked. At the moment, there is nobody in the council facilitating that sort of information sharing. To me, it makes plain good sense.

 

Guy

[Scouter&mom]

I went to a District committee training. It was only a couple of hours long, and had all sorts of district committee roles there. I didn't get a whole lot out of it, other than reviewing the list of committee roles a district should have filled. Since our district committee is non-functional-- we don't have a chairman-- and the same people come to any of the meetings--except some council level. I haven't see membership chair at district meeting ina year, the advancement chair only at UoS when he taught a Life to Eagle class, the training chair has just resigned because he couldn't get any cooperation from council on getting information or even response from most leaders on training needs and records. I only know district RT commissioner and district commissioner and the activities/program chair are the only other district people who show up regularly. The same people plan the same events each year. District committee training was useless to me, since there is no committee. I chose to concentrate my activities on the unit level, with the exception of the council level event that I chaired last year, and will chair again next year.

[moxieman]

I went from a five-year scoutmaster to Boy Scout Roundtable Commissioner. I didn't have much of a problem in the transition. The old RT commish hung around for several months to help ease me in. I've found it's a much easier job than Scoutmaster of a youth-led unit. Less stress, no clueless parents who don't understand why meetings look like chaos, and also refuse to learn why and wanting to take over/run the meetings themselves instead of allowing the SPL to do his job, etc.

 

When youth and/or other leaders ask me what's it like being RT Commish, I answer, it's similar to SPL, but you're dealing with a troop of adults rather than youth. You're in charge of planning out the monthly RT meetings. In my case, I hold a yearly planning meeting similar to how attendees should hold for their youth to plan-out the upcoming year's RT topics. Yes, it doesn't follow national's plan, but it works for us in this rural district. I have people driving 2 hours one way from our little border town on the Quebec Border faithfully every month to the meeting. Overall attendance: roughly 30 to 35 people representing 3/4's of our district's troops. I can't complain. Yes, it could be better, but it could be a lot worse...like our current cub scout roundtable side. The program is there, it's convincing the cub leaders to come.

 

Are all the training segments a success? No. Sometimes, the expert you recruit knows his/her stuff, but hasn't a clue about adult learning styles and you wind-up with a napper of a lecture. But usually, those recruited do a great job. This past month, we had a hands-on training on GPS use from a non-profit that does just that-teach kids about GPS and they agreed to do it for our adults--some of whom have now made appointments with that NP to do it with their unit. They even provide the GPS units. We started this past year with a cooking demonstration night. Several unit leaders who love to cook, stepped forward and did different styles of camp cooking there in the meeting facility's parking lot. What a great way to start the fall.

 

I think if I hadn't served as an SM in a youth-run unit for several years prior to taking over as RT Commish, it wouldn't have worked out for me as RT Commish.

 

The district tried to recruit me several times prior to when I stepped up for roundtable for other positions. I felt either they weren't a good fit or I wasn't ready for that on top of unit leadership. Within a year of stepping up to district, I stepped out of the unit completely. Stress-wise, probably the best move I've made as a volunteer.

 

Basically, if you're stepping up from unit to district, try to move into a position you're good at.

 

Are you good at HTML? Maybe your district could use a webmaster.

Are you an expert at knots (or lashings or compass or...) offer to help at a Roundtable on that subject.

Are you good at fundraising? Then your DE is going to love you.

Understand advancement well? Join the district advancement committee.

 

I could go on and on.

[Twitterpated]

Darn, I thought I was getting to do a District position because of my experience and wealth of knowledge! LOL I didn't know it was because I could BREATHE! j/k

 

[gwd-scouter]

I used to serve as District Training Chair. In those days, our District Committee was made up almost solely of folks from the mega-pack (for which I was Cub Master) and leaders from the mega-troop. The ideas and agenda became focused around the way the Troop did things. Roundtable meetings were poorly attended. I made a comment once or twice at Committee meetings that perhaps we should reach out and get volunteers from other units. Perhaps the Committee had become to "in-bred" and folks in other units think they can't have any input on what goes on.

 

Still, our Committee Chair, Training Chair, Advancement Chair, and Commissioner are all current or former ASMs of the mega-troop. Over the years, though, folks from other units have begun to speak up and volunteer to do things - such as organizing the district camporees. Advancement Chair is a fair minded individual and is doing the best job of anyone ever in that position. All of our advancement chairs have come from the mega-troop and some of the rules imposed on Eagle candidates have been ridiculous, but, as I stated, the man now in the position is doing a fantastic job.

 

Training Chair has been doing it for too long and falls back a lot on the old way of doing things. Even dispenses some incorrect information - like having to travel in uniform for insurance purposes.

 

Complaints can be made about the practices of some of our district volunteers. The problem is our district has now and always has had many many vacancies. Unit Commissioners is the best example. Calls for volunteers go unanswered. I'm sure DE and District Chair would welcome anyone with enthusiasm and good ideas to step up and volunteer to serve on the district level. Unfortunately, pleas for volunteers go unanswered and most times they just have to take whatever warm bodies show up.

 

Edited to add: The bit about unit scouters bringing their troop customs with them to committee jobs. Years ago I sat on an Eagle BOR. The Advancement Chair and the other member of the Board were ASMs in the mega-troop. Candidate shows up in his uniform shirt and blue jeans. The review was conducted and candidate was asked to step out of the room. The other two board members made a big deal of the fact that he was not in uniform. Their troop is a full uniform troop, as is mine. But, I mentioned to them both that not all troops have that custom and some only ask the guys to wear the shirt. I thought it was not fair or even appropriate to impose their troop's customs on the guy. They didn't agree with me, but the new Eagle was granted. I've noticed over the years though that the Advancement Chair has lightened up on the uniforming thing.(This message has been edited by gwd-scouter)

[ThunderFox]

A big part of the problem, besides lack of volunteers, is the fact that very few folks know what a District is supposed to do and so have no idea how to get there.

 

A major clue is our org chart to begin with and its chain of command. Start with the Key 3, it is repeated at every level.

 

The National SE is directly in line above the Regional SE who is Directly above the Area SE who is above the Council SE who is above the District SE who is above the COR & IH. The Professional Chain

 

The National Chairman (pres) is directly in line above the Regional Chairman who is Directly above the Area Chairman who is above the Council Chairman who is above the District Chairman who is above the Committee Chairman. The Exaecutive Chain

 

The National Commissioner is directly in line above the Regional Commissioner who is Directly above the Area Commissioner who is above the Council Commissioner who is above the District Commissioner who is above the Unit Leader. The Program Chain

 

At each of these levels there is a committe directed by the Exacutive whose mission is support of the organization and The Program at their respective level. The chair of each sub-committe is a member of the respective sub-committee above. The Pack's advancement chair is automatically a member of the District Advancement Committee and so forth up the line with each committee.

 

Think about it. How strong would the program of your 30 unit district be if the advancement committee had 30 active members just like the District's other sub-committees. Each committe would train it's new members and each year the committee would suggest a chairperson to the new District Chairman. If that district advancement committee has monthly meetings seperate from the district committee meeting they could do wonderous things and report their progess at the District Committee Meeting.

 

If the District Commissioner reports an advancement problem in a unit at the District Committee Meeting, the 30 member Advancement committee has the resources to work with the Unit with the help of the Unit Commissioner to improve the situation and if the problem is severe enough, the District Commissioner can assign the Commissioner's Life Saving Team.

 

The District is a mirror of the Unit. The Unit committee supports the program (SM) guided by the Unit Chair. The District committee supports the program (DC) guided by the District Chair. The information and representation is vertical from the unit all the way to national; up and down.

 

Now that is a what a perfect district would be like, but "SIGH" where does that even happen. I put a PowerPoint together to teach this at our University of Scouting and everyone agreed it was the way it should be, but no attempts have been recorded that implementation was ever attempted save my attempt in my district; I failed.

 

Oh well,

Ol' Thunder Fox

[VigilNavyCPO]

 

Eagle92 wrote "One problem I've seen recently is that you have experienced district folks discounting the ideas of newer members. I've seen folks on the district level for 10+ years state "we can't do that" and We've doen it before and it didn't work" etc, etc. One meeting that I missed almost had a fight break out between two of the members over how to run a camporee!"

 

I have a thought, maybe some Districts have problems because of current adult volunteers running them think they have been elected POPE for life.

 

For example, when I was a young adult ASM, the SM asked me to attend RT for him due to his increasing work schedule. I attended all winter and I believe the RTC never really believed my SM had to work, and never took me seriously (I was only 21.)

 

The Roundtable Commissioner was a been there, done that type of guy. Spring Camporee was ALWAYS on Mother's Day weekend, period. It was suggested at RT that the date be changed to before or after that date (due to feedback from Troops that no longer attended the Camporee). Over half the District Troops did not attend Spring Camporee. The planning group liked the idea, but the Roundtable Commissioner stated no, it will always be on that date so Mom can relax with Dad & son out of the house for the weekend, end of discussion. That year my Troop joined the "Outlaw" section of the district and we started attending the alternate Outlaw Spring Campout held the weekend BEFORE Mother's Day. (We even had patches.)

 

This Scouter in question had been Roundtable Commissioner for 20 years back when I was a youth, and I know he had the job for at least 10 more years before he was finally talked into "retirement". Except for his myopia on the Spring Camporee, he was a very good Roundtable Commissioner.

 

Yes, once he got done, the next year the District held a Spring Camporee not on Mother's Day weekend for All the troops.

 

I know a lot of people will disagree with me, but I think 3 to 5 years should be the max any volunteer should be allowed to stay in his job, maybe with a one year turnover to mentor replacement. This would help prevent the stagnation (or prevention) of new ideas.

 

 

[VigilNavyCPO]

Oh, one more thought, my old SM believed in spreading the work load of the Troop around onto all the adults. Once, when I asked him why he had assigned a job to a ASM, becasuse this ASM did not do a good job. I wanted the job assigned to a ASM I KNEW had made done it well.

 

My SM told me he needed more then one ASM who could do the job correctly.

He then told me this story.

 

There was a town in which lived a "One man Band". Every Sat people would come from far and wide to see and hear this man play. The town was delighted & benefited greatly. One week the man died. No more did people come to town to hear him play.

 

The lesson, one man bands can be very good, until he dies. Then you do not have a band.

 

 

[ThunderFox]

Vigil,

I am amazed that a Roundtable Commissioner could bulldog a whole district. We have so many Type A folks in our district that the Camping Chair, Activities Chair and/or Camporee Chair would tell him to, "Get real, we will do this our way!" And then they would argue amongst themselves about before or after Mothers' Day! Hahahahaha!

 

Cheers Mate,

Ol' Thunder Fox

Quartermaster

SES SilverSpray

[emb021]

Sorry, but a Roundtable Commissioner should have ZILCH to say about the scheduling of the District Camporee. That should be the decision of the District Camping Committee.

 

Maybe someone should have reminded him of what his actual duties are?

[VigilNavyCPO]

Remember, this was almost 20 years ago, in a small (popualtion) district in a very rural council,but it colors my reactions to this day. It's one reason I only like to work at the unit level.

We did not even have a paid DE, but "shared" one with another much larger (ie richer) District. The Roundtable Commissioner was a "One man Band". Besides, who has'nt seen a leader who thinks they have been elected for life? A OA Lodge Advisor that's working on his 20 year pin, etc . ...