What to do?

[Albert_H]

I am a bit confused about what to do with a give situation or what should have been done.

 

Our Troop went on an outing recently where we stayed in a large cabin. There was a bunk room for the boys and a separate bunk room for the men. All went well with the outing except that both nights the flask of whiskey came out. The first night it was just one or two mixed drinks (coke & whiskey) before bed. Thinking about the thread on the Scouter.com forum that this thread is spun from, I did not want to be judgmental or step out of my proper place to point out the clear rules infraction, so I said nothing. After all, it was just a friendly drink or two among grown men. The second night, the drinking was a bit more liberal and was started with the SPL sitting at the table. All of the other three adults on this trip (with 22 boys) were visually impaired by the time they went to bed. I again said nothing but realized that it would have been easier to stop if Id said something the night before.

 

I now wonder if I should have said something at the time or if I should say anything now?

 

There is a clear divide amongst Scouters on these forums as to if it is my place to say anything at all, and Im torn within as to what is the correct way to handle these situations. This was clearly a danger as only one adult would have been capable of acting in an emergency. This put all the boys in our care at risk. Sometimes I wonder if ignoring others violation of the rules is simply laziness it is after all the path of least resistance. Sometimes doing the right thing comes with a cost. Did I do the wrong thing to avoid the cost; which in this case could have been damaged friendships?

 

[hingram]

No blood, no foul.

 

BUT now is a good time to nip it in the bud. Although I do drink, I set up proper boundaries. Scouting is one of the boundaries. There is just no place for it and nothing good will come from it. If people want to smoke/drink, it should not be openly.

 

Ironically, scouting here is being replaced by hunting clubs. Imagine Boy Scouts except there are guns and alcohol(for adults). We've run into several of those groups at camp sites

[OneHour]

You have a responsibility! Parents entrust you and your fellow scoutmasters with their children.

 

Guide to Safe Scouting states:

 

"The Boy Scouts of America prohibits the use of alcoholic beverages and controlled substances at encampments or activities on property owned and/or operated by the Boy Scouts of America, or at any activity involving participation of youth members.

 

Adult leaders should support the attitude that young adults are better off without tobacco and may not allow the use of tobacco products at any BSA activity involving youth participants.

 

All Scouting functions, meetings, and activities should be conducted on a smoke-free basis, with smoking areas located away from all participants."

 

In Texas, "Adults and minors who give alcohol to a minor also face a stiff penalty. The punishment for making alcoholic beverages available to a minor is a class A misdemeanor, punishable by a fine up to $4,000, confinement in jail for up to a year, or both. Additionally, as of September 1, 2005, the violator will have his or her drivers license automatically suspended for 180 days upon conviction."

 

"Minors who purchase, attempt to purchase, possess, or consume alcoholic beverages, as well as minors who are intoxicated in public or misrepresent their age to obtain alcoholic beverages, face the following consequences:

- Class C misdemeanor, punishable by a fine up to $500

- cohol awareness class

- to 40 hours community service

- to 180 days loss or denial of driver's license"

 

It does not matter how you spin it, it is against BSA rules and not sure about other states, but in Texas, it is against the law!

 

I would have stopped it the first time it was hinted (not even shown). You are correct. Impaired scoutes are more harmful than help if there is an emergency, on top of endangering the well-being of the scouts.

 

This is more than just bantering. This is serious and has to be addressed.

 

Now, I would take it up with your Committee Chair, your, COR and your DE!

 

1Hour

 

 

[John-in-KC]

1) Find a new Troop for your son. This is bright line territory to me.

 

2) Contact the Chartered Organization Representative. Explain to him why you're leaving.

 

3) This is imo a yp reportable incident. Call your Scout Executive.

http://www.scouting.org/YouthProtection.aspx

Member responsibilities. All members of the Boy Scouts of America are expected to conduct themselves in accordance with the principles set forth in the Scout Oath and Law. Physical violence, hazing, bullying, theft, verbal insults, drugs, and alcohol have no place in the Scouting program (emphasis added) and may result in the revocation of a Scout's membership in the unit.

 

http://www.scouting.org/healthandsafety/gss/gss04.aspx

The Boy Scouts of America prohibits the use of alcoholic beverages and controlled substances at encampments or activities on property owned and/or operated by the Boy Scouts of America, or at any activity involving participation of youth members. (boldface denotes policy in this paragraph)(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

[CA_Scouter]

Yikes! Bad stuff. If it was just a friendly drink then off to bed, I wouldn't make a stink ( yea yea I know but this is my opinion ). In this case though, this was clearly overboard, so something must be said.

 

I think you were correct to not say anything at the time as they wouldn't listen to you anyway, but now its time to follow up privately with those adults and voice your concerns. Expect resistance. If you don't get satisfaction then you'll have to choose as to whether to inform others on the committee or move on to another troop.

 

You might approach it by 'innocently' commenting on the G2SS rules about alcohol at scouting activities and see how they react. Then you be better able to gauge how they will handle additional comments.

 

$0.02

 

ADDED: seeing other posts above, I did not interpret the description to indicate that the SPL was drinking, just that he was sitting at the table when the bottle came out...

 

(This message has been edited by CA_Scouter)

[Albert_H]

To clarify;

 

No youth were consuming alcohol.

The three adults who were consuming alcohol:

One is the COR and father of one of the Scouts on the outing

Second is a committee member and is husband of the Committee Chair and father of the SPL

Third is also a committee member and father of one of the Scouts on the outing

 

Two have been trained and all three know the Guide to Safe Scouting...

[John-in-KC]

My advice stands, except bypass the COR. Go to the Executive Officer of your Chartered Partner.

 

You had charge of youth program members. No alcohol.

 

Report this to your SE.

[Trevorum]

Yeah, I agree with John. This is not a wink-wink situation. I would not trust my son with these adults.

[NEI263Beaver]

The boys notice everything we do.

[Beavah]

Yah, there's a bit in the Bible I like very much. I reckon it answers your question, Albert_H. Go look at Matthew 18:15 and following.

 

Yes, this should not happen for the reasons you suggest. Not a good example, and unsafe in the event of a problem. You should step forward, eh?

 

So go barbeque or grill or have coffee or shoot a round of golf with the fellows, and say "Hey, guys, I need to talk to you about the last campout..." That's your first step, eh? And givin' 'em time to think through it even if they don't react well at first. Don't sling the rules around. Just express your feelings honestly.

 

I wouldn't be going to the IH, or the SE. This is not a "Youth Protection" issue in the way we mean those things. I would not be convening a lynch mob of parents. Some of those steps may come, down the road, eventually. But to do that as a first step is the sin of self righteous pride, or the lack of moral fortitude to confront a colleague in person and in private over an important matter.

 

Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone...

 

Beavah

 

[Eagle92]

I was in a similar predicament. Except I wasn't around the adults drinking, I found their empty beer cans in a pyramid like it was a frat house after they left. Report it ASAP. I wil tell you that there will be hard feelings, you will be considered a trouble maker, and the environment twith the rest of the adults in the unit will be hostile. BUT the safety of our youth is the number one priority! What would have happened if an emergency arose while they were impaired?

 

Even knwoing what would happen to the camp staffers, firm warning by the SE, and being a pariah on the camp staff, to the point of driving home every nite and returning for breakfast every morning, I'ld do it again in a heartbeat. the safety of our scouts is the number one priority.(This message has been edited by eagle92)

[Mafaking]

I am no tea-toddler but I am a for all things scouting.

 

These people are a scourge to scouting. A scout needs medical attention in the middle of the night are you are to drunk to deal with it? You Ba*****!

 

 

[John-in-KC]

Beavah makes a good point. You do have the option of confronting them first. If they listen, repent, and demonstrate change, it's dealt with.

 

There's another part of Matthew 18, though. If they are unrepentant, you move to the next step.

 

I just never hope I have a leader who has a midnight emergency to get a youth member out of a camp, for any number of reasons ... and that leader gets nailed with DWI.

[IM_Kathy]

if it were me and already been done (because I would've said something as soon as the flask came out first night) I would speak to them all... let them know of the rules that are for adults too... tell them of your concern for the safety of the boys... and if they didn't corect their behavior I would contact council and put my son in a different troop

[ScoutNut]

"I now wonder if I should have said something at the time"

 

YES !

 

"if I should say anything now?"

 

YES !

 

"Thinking about the thread on the Scouter.com forum that this thread is spun from, I did not want to be judgmental or step out of my proper place to point out the clear rules infraction, so I said nothing."

 

So, you are using some posts on a message board as an excuse for not following one of BSA's very EXPLICIT rules??? Really??

 

You have choices - Grow up and talk to your CO, and your UC, about what happened, and make darn sure it does not happen again; ignore the problem and move to another Troop; ignore it, smile and nod, maybe even partake a bit the next time it happens, but what the heck, at least you would not have offended your "friends".

 

Good Grief!