Religious Services at Events

[NeilLup]

With the idea of providing light rather than heat, I wanted to relate some experiences in trying to provide appropriate religious services for the participants in a Regional Wood Badge Course Director's development conference:

 

1) We were told that the bishop of one Catholic diocese, which covered an entire state, was totally adamant that everybody in his diocese WOULD attend Mass every Sunday -- no exceptions. There would be no allowances, no waivers, no nothing. So the people in his diocese had little wiggle room.

 

2) Another year, we had planned to have a priest to say Mass at the conference and, for a very good reason, the priest had to pull out at the last minute. In order to meet the schedule, we told all the participants that we would not be able to provide Mass and that the priest had said this would be OK under the circumstances. One of the participants, from this bishop's diocese, sat down and started loudly crying --- literally crying. When asked why, he said that it would be the first time in his life that he had not been to Mass on Sunday. What could we do? He went to Mass, consequently so did all the other Catholics and we had to take 2 hours of material out of the course.

 

3) Another time, a Course Director and Scoutmaster from the diocese of the bishop mentioned in item 1 told about the time that he had taken his Troop out to Montana on a trip. Montana is a LOOOOONG way from this state. He said that they had learned of a church where they planned to attend Mass. However, because of a mixup in schedule, when they showed up at the church, Mass was not there. So they phonecalled and drove over Montana for essentially that entire Sunday trying to find Mass without success. When they got back home, the first question that 3 families separately asked was why the Troop had made their sons miss Mass on Sunday.

 

4) A Jewish participant had himself appointed Chaplain's Aide for his training patrol. When they got together to plan the Scout's Own service, the suggestion was to sing the hymn "Faith of our Fathers" which was recommended in the course guide. This man vehemently objected saying that it was offensive to Jews because it implied a paternalistic God and if we insisted on singing it, he would walk out and so would all the other Jews. Later, one of the other Jews took us aside and said that the man was speaking only for himself and not for the Jews in the group.

 

My only point is that for some religions and some individuals, as was mentioned above, religion may be a mechanism for a power trip. In some cases, this may not be the choice of the individual but rather the policy or dictum of the leader(s) of a hierarchical church. One cannot satisfy these people unless they get precisely what they want and possibly not even then.

[eagle1977]

Just an interesting point . . .the council I belong to has adjusted its Wood Badge training to Thursday - Saturday. I was told that this was to appease the LDS members. However, after reading this thread I wonder if it might not have been to appease everyone!

[NeilLup]

Hello Eagle 1977,

 

A Wood Badge from Thursday through Saturday does nothing to satisfy the needs of highly observant orthodox Jews who, as I understand matters, cannot do "work" from sundown Friday evening through sundown Saturday PM. Fixing food, putting up camp, etc. I believe counts as work.

 

At one time and possibly currently, the Northeast Region offered what was called the "Religious Observant Wood Badge." It was a week long course but lasted in duration I believe 9 or 10 days since there were no activities from Friday to Saturday to meet the needs of the highly observant Jews and then no activities from Saturday through Sunday to meet the needs of the LDS, Catholics, etc. It also had food to meet the dietary requirements of the Jews, Muslims, etc.

[GernBlansten]

Our district has a very large number of LDS units and a lot of the district volunteers are LDS. However, the LDS units are very small and the majority of scouts in the district are non-LDS.

 

Every event, Camporee, Klonderee is set up to start Friday night, end before sunset Saturday. Non-LDS are welcome to stay Saturday night but there is no program. This isn't necessarily bad, it gives our unit some time to work on stuff we want to, but it does limit the amount of activity with other units.

 

Our summer camp also reserves two weeks for LDS units only. It starts on Monday and goes through Saturday afternoon. Typical summer camp starts Sunday and goes through Saturday morning. Not sure what other program changes they implement during those weeks.

[GoldFox]

I guess there is no policy requiring or not requiring religious services at district and council events - huh?

 

I don't know what will happen at this event because I referred to the entire matter to our DE but I will let you know.

 

I like the idea, for future events, of allotting 1 hour of religious observance time and letting each unit handle their own services. It puts the responsibility on the unit and makes it easier for the event staff to plan the event.

 

I totally understand certain religions and their requirements. That is why we planned the event the way we did, with a very early award presentation so those who need to can leave in plenty of time.

 

Maybe I misunderstood, but I never saw scouting as a religious organization. Does duty to one's religion/God play a part, yes! But it should not be the overriding factor in everything that is done, unless your CO requires that it be. It has a minor part in the Mission and Vision of the BSA as it relates to the Scout Oath and Law. However, I always saw this program as much more about helping to guide young people into being better citizens - not preparing them for a religious ministry.

 

I always believed that one's religion is a private and personal matter. I was taught to respect other religions but also not to push mine down the throat of others. Is it asking a lot to have others do the same?

[Beavah]

"When we were in the same unit and took a bunch of scouts overseas, they MADE all the scouts attend a Catholic service with them on Sunday. I tried to take those non-Catholic's to another church or skip it and they had a hissy fit. "

 

This person seems to be on a religious power trip.

 

Yah, perhaps.

 

Or perhaps they weren't comfortable with sendin' some kids off with only one adult in a foreign country.

 

There's lots of possibilities, without assumin' the worst of other people. As Neil describes, what looks a bit wacky to those of us not brought up in a particular area/tradition might be so deeply meaningful to others that it moves adults to tears.

 

The world is a big, diverse place. I reckon it's best if we start by bein' understanding, rather than judgmental.

 

Beavah

 

[Trevorum]

I tried to take those non-Catholics to another church...

 

Exposure to the wide variety beliefs of others is almost always a good thing. Visiting the services of other religions while a youth can be an important element in developing a sense of religious tolerance as an adult. However, some religions are fairly insular and even go so far as to prohibit attendance by their members at other places of worship. That's a shame (dare I say paranoid?), IMO, but those tenets must be respected in the name of tolerance.

 

Several years ago, I presented a short progam on cross-cultural religious awareness to the troop at our meeting before Scout Sunday/Sabbath. Just a short overview of a dozen different religions, world-wide: where, what, when, etc. Most fellows were mildly interested and a few were fascinated by stuff they never knew before. However, I did recieve one or two sharp comments from evangelical Christian parents who did not appreciate my mild attempt to widen their son's perspective. In deference to that minority, I've not repeated the progam. Live and learn.

 

[BadenP]

Maybe Catholics should be in their own seperate units with a priest along on events to say mass instead of disrupting scouting events or they can be like the LDS and leave on Saturday night. No matter what that bishop stated recent polls done by Catholic organizations show that the average Catholic in America attends mass only 1 1/2 times a month and 85% of Catholic women of child bearing age use some form of birth control so it seems most Catholics don't seem to care what the church hierarchy has to say.

 

The truth of the matter is that there are exceptions to the mass attendance rule written into cannon law, dispensation can be given by a pastor, you can invite a deacon to your event to say a communion service and they are much more numerous than priests, and in extreme circumstances a baptized/confirmed Catholic can also perform a communion service, all of which are acceptable alternatives. The fact is that in many areas in this country with the ever growing shortage of priests many Catholics only see a priest led mass once or twice a month. This shortage is only going to get worse in the future and the days of a priestless parish is rapidly approaching so Catholics will need to learn to accept this reality and these alternatives instead of what they have been used to. In my area alone within 10 years half to three quarters of the parishes will not have a priest and plans are already underway to close many of those churches.

[evmori]

We were told that the bishop of one Catholic diocese, which covered an entire state, was totally adamant that everybody in his diocese WOULD attend Mass every Sunday -- no exceptions. There would be no allowances, no waivers, no nothing. So the people in his diocese had little wiggle room.

 

I know this is a hijack but I gotta ask.

 

And if you don't attend mass, what happens?