push ups

[scorpionace]

is push ups or sit ups used as punishment considered as carpal punishment?

[DanKroh]

Well, push ups certainly are hard on the wrists, so I guess that qualifies as carpal punishment.

 

Sit ups are mostly hard on the back, so I'd call that lumbar punishment.

 

Unless, of course, you meant corporal punishment?

 

[CA_Scouter]

Its considered 'idiotic'.

 

Those who can't lead, punish. Those who can, encourage.

 

[kenk]

From Wikipedia:

 

"Corporal punishment is the deliberate infliction of pain intended to punish a person or change his/her behavior."

 

Its not so much the activity as the cause of the activity.

 

If a scout is being 'forced' to do pushups as punishment for something, then it is corporal punishment.

[emb021]

FWIW, if fraternities force their pledges to do push-ups, its considered hazing. So keep that in mind.

[evmori]

It's discouraged.

[Kahuna]

Never.

[Eagle1982]

Does the guide to safe scouting say anything about them?

Does the Scoutmaster Handbook say anything about them?

Are Scouts encouraged and even required to do certain exercises, like push-ups, for rank?

Based on the wiki definition, is it corporal punishment if it does not inflict pain? (actually, push-ups are not mentioned anywhere in the wiki article mentioned, only striking)

 

It's OK for boys to do push-ups for rank advancement but not as a punishment? (it depends)

It's OK for a troop to have morning PT, but not allow push-ups as a punishment? (it depends)

 

I personally think that using pushups as a punishment is not a good way to lead, and that there are better options to encourage Scouts in the right way. However, I don't believe there is any edict outlawing them from Scouting. I think troops need to be very clear in their by-laws with regards to what punishments are allowed for what offenses in what frequencies. So you don't get an ex drill sergeant in one camp doling out pushups for everything, then the next campout a different leader has everyone sing Kum-ba-yah and hug each other.

 

So, if your troop has not made a policy, perhaps they should. So parents can make a decision what type of place they want their kids at.

 

[Beavah]

Yah, scorpionace, welcome to da forums. Seems like from your two posts yeh have some "issues" with your current adult leadership. Goin' out onto the net looking for "ammunition" for an adult dispute within a unit probably isn't the best way to approach things.

 

To answer your question, no, in most generally accepted definitions of corporal punishment, doing pushups would not meet that definition. If that were the case, then I reckon most football practice drills would be banned by schools across the country, which do prohibit corporal punishment.

 

Pushups are just pushups, eh? Like bein' made to sit in a corner and take a time-out is just bein' made to sit in a corner. It's not "social ostracism".

 

Beavah

 

[ps. for emb021 - can yeh tell me in what state yeh think hazing is defined to include doin' pushups? Generally speakin', hazing has an actual legal definition in a lot of states because its been incorporated into criminal codes. To my knowledge, doin' pushups doesn't meet the definition anywhere, but it's been a while since I looked at it. -B]

 

 

[dg98adams]

As a Retired AF enlisted member, I certainly did not specialize in push-ups..(except maybe at basic).....but I do know of some limited use of push-ups within the BSA.

 

It's a form of physical measurement (30 day span) for #10ab

#10

a. Record your best in the following tests:

* Push-ups

* Pull-ups

* Sit-ups

* Standing long jump

* 1/4 mile walk/run

b. Show improvement in the activities listed in requirement 10a after practicing for 30 days.

 

So there is a benefit of push-ups as exercise.

 

I know of a Troop that encourages them, but I don't think it's as punishment. I think there is nothing like "sweat equity" to focus a young man's attention.

 

Like I said, they don't use them in my Troop (not enough military influence I guess). But in a nearby Troop I have seen a Scout answer a leader with "yeah" or forget to say "excuse me Mr...." (who is talking), drop and push 10 off without the Scout Leader saying anything.

 

There are consequences to every action, and push-ups are one way to "encourage thought", rather than verbally reprimand or punish. The Scout benefits from the "encouragement".

 

IMHO I think this would benefit more Scouts in my Troop, rather than the obligatory "Oh, sorry about that" or "my bad" (which I absolutely loathe), or even the "blank look" when I have been interrupted by a young Scout while conversing with some one and I ask him to "please wait until I am finished talking"...

 

So, I do not think push-ups as a form of corporal punishment.

 

[artjrk]

One year at webelos camp we decided to have fun with mail from home. If a scouts letter had any X's or O's (loves and kisses) we had him do one pushup for each. Our Den cheif who was their with us that year would do them with the scout. If the scout didn't want to do them they did not have to. It wasn't punishment at all just fun and games. we all had a fun time laughing w/ each other as they where being done.

[SctDad]

Push ups are not meant to hurt. If you do them right and be cautious how often you dish them out, then it can be a very effective method.

 

Remember the part "to keep myself physically Strong"

 

This is one method of building upper body strength. If you take it easy and not use it for every infration, or adjust the push up count to the severity, then it can be a form of constructive training.

 

Trust me I learned my lessons after having to do many push-ups.

[packsaddle]

A few years back, during a public forum, my General ordered my Colonel to give him 10 on the spot (ten pushups, not double high fives). He did - in front of the entire audience. I don't know if he felt humiliated or not but I was impressed that it happened at all. They weren't good ones but the point was made and the Colonel never made that mistake again, I wager. Neither did I.

 

I think I'd try to find a more 'instructive' way to 'encourage' a boy but I see nothing wrong with getting everyone more engaged in personal fitness. When I was a boy, my troop had contests to see how many (fill in blank) we could do. I remember doing over 200 real situps and dozens of pushups. I sure wish I was that fit today. Maybe I DO need that General to give me the order.

[scorpionace]

No bones to pick.

Been a volunteer since my boy was a cub.

He is now a troop leader and he sometimes has one of the misbehaving boys to do this didn't want him to get in trouble,

ya know!

Just needed input.

thx everyone

[Eagle1982]

Scorpianace,

 

Gathering ammunition online won't always win over other committee members to your cause. In this case, it's really all about the individual troop culture, and whether they have WRITTEN down any bylaws or procedures for discipline.

 

In the end, if your son is using pushups as a punishment/deterrent,and the committee has already forbidden it, then it's out. If they have not forbidden it, and the SM says not to do it, it's out.

 

If the troop does not have any procedures for handling discipline, then they ought to make them. So you don't have different people doing and allowing different things. Inconsistency won't help the troop one bit.