Delaying Eagle until near 18 to keep them "active"

[eagle77]

I think a big part of the problem is scouters, parents and scouts who believe that the only thing there is to scouting is achieving Eagle. Once this is completed its on to something else. A scouts advancement is basically controlled by one person, the scout. As SM I can have all the conferences I want to discuss this but the final decision is up to him. There are leaders who feel that earning eagle, at say 14 or 15 that they lack the leadership or expierence. Those are not requirements as long as the scout has completed the requirements that national has set for Eagle or any other rank, to hold back or delay is actually adding requirements to what is already there and these leaders need to be updated on what advancement really is. It isn't just a patch it is a growing and maturing type of thing and as we all know different people mature at different speeds. Can't change that or adjust it to your way of thinking.

[asm 411]

We have had Eagles that stay and some that leave. I think that is the nature of the business. We have some Scouts at all ranks that stay and some that leave. We have had Scouts return to finish Eagle we have had others return to go camping.

 

I think continually talking to the Scouts and parents that Eagle is one thing that can be done in Scouts but is not the end of the game is very important. We start this with Webelos and their parents. Additionally we encourage our Eagles, aged out or not, to continue to participate when their school or work schedules permit. I think this shows the younger Scouts that Eagle is not the end of the line.

 

One last point I would like to make. Our troop has gone through a lot of changes in the last three years. The one that has been most import in keeping the older Scouts involved is working the Patrol Method. Let the Scouts pick what they want to do and they will come. No matter how great an idea I think I have if I can't sell it to the SPL it stinks. If the SPL likes it and he sells it to the PLs all is good. Many times my idea seeds grow in ways I did not expect but as long as the Scouts have fun when they are together I think whatever they grow into is good.

[GernBlansten]

All to often, I see scouters and parents view the ECOH as a crossover, from youth to adulthood. The end of their boy scouting life as a youth.

 

Everyone talks about how important Eagle is on a college application. If a scout,unit,parent delays his Eagle until he nears 18, possibly until his final semester as a senior, he won't have the advancement to include on his application.

[Buffalo Skipper]

It is sad to see this type of behavior by troop leadeship (and I use the term "leadership" loosley!). Our troop has had the opposite problem, scouts struggling to complete their Eagle requirements before their 18th birthday. The previous SMs son earned his eagle 7 weeks before his turning 18, making him the troop's youngest Eagle in nearly 10 years! It is odd, as many of these scouts earn Life between the age of 13 and 15. About half remain somewhat participatory in activities, and the other half really are rarely seen after the age of 16.

 

I earned my Eagle just before turning 15, and I remained with my troop until I aged out. Admitedly, I did attend fewer meetings and outings, but I remained an active scout, working on camp staff, National Jamboree (PL), and I was active as a Sea Explorer and was involved with the Explorer Presidents Association with the council and area. Had I not completed my Eagle so early, I would have had neither the experience nor the opportunity to become involved with the other activities.

 

In our troop, we promote personal growth and advancement at ones own pace. In our young troop, 2/3 of the scouts are S-T-2, and we are encouraging the mastering of scout skills (T-2-1 requirements), but it is still the scout's responsiblity, with their PLs support, to see that their requirements are signed off. Our emphasis is on the skill (advancement is the natural result of this), not the badge. But I would never hold anyone up on advancement.

[desertrat77]

Horrible policy, keeping scouts from advancing via self-imposed rules to bolster the SM's scheme of a large/steady troop roster.

 

Smacks of SM egotism and snake oil salesmanship.

 

Bottom line, each scout is different. Over the course of a couple years, we can be surprised, on occassion, at who becomes the fast burner, who burns out and quits, etc.

 

A scout who stays on the roster till 18 may be "active" or he may be marking time....

 

Why take the risk that he might quit, then look back with regret.

 

The regret would be doubly tough if one of the stumbling blocks was Mr/Ms SM's flim/flam age constraints.

 

I submit that it would be better in the long run to take the risk a scout would quit after Eagle than to have him quit and never make it.

 

 

[emb021]

Also, delaying a kid from getting Eagle until they are near 18 makes it impossible for them to get Palms.

 

Do they really think this is what National wants?

[BadenP]

I agree that this policy is a sad commentary, while I don't necessarily agree with 13 year old Eagles, this type of restriction is simply unacceptable. Further I think that any troop leadership endorsing these type of rules should be subject to sanctions from the council for violating the terms of their charter, and not following the rules set down by National regarding the advancement path to Eagle.

[GernBlansten]

I too don't like the idea of 13 year old Eagles, nor do I like the idea of scouts who check out at 13/14, come back at 16/17 as a Star and rush to finish up right before their 18th Bday.

 

I have felt that the 6 months as a Star and 6 months as a Life scout were too low. If you bumped them to 12 months each, it would eliminate the 13 year Eagles, but still allow a gung ho scout to get eagle by 15. It would also eliminate the deathbed Eagles who wait until 17 to move beyond Star. But for the majority of scouts, it wouldn't have any effect as they usually spend at least 12 months at each upper rank.

[Nike]

Gern's suggestion to increase the time in rank for Star and Life is an excellet way to slow down the parents and increase the likely maturity of Eagles. I have advised my son that a rank of year after 1st class is perfectly reasonable. There's no need to rocket thorugh life and miss the roses along the way.

[wearrepair]

Two points 1)Troops must follow Scouting policy. Some use the "show scout spirit" requirement to throw in road blocks...that is wrong and not policy. National Scouting has added requirements into Eagle to make earning it a longer process than it used to be. 2)Scouts leaving after Eagle etc. tells me the troop has to improve their program. Is it youth lead? Do older scouts have meaningful things to do?

I was a 12 year old Eagle in the 50's and a Scoutmaster who worked to remove troop road blocks.(so have seen both bad sides of this topic) Hang in there it is a great program.

[Eagle92]

Ok gotta a question, What if the charter organization, not the SM or committee, but the IH and COR both, who create the 16 y.o. minimum age for Eagle? We all know that the LDS has modified scouting to suit their criteria, and effectively got a program started for themselves, Varsity Scouting. So can another CO do the same?

 

This is the situation with one CO with a pack troop, and crew. the IH and COR are both Eagles and want the same standards as when they grew up. They have seen Eagles who should not have been, and want to make sure that when someone makes Eagle from their troop or crew, they truly deserve it.

 

There is no problem now as the units are very young, troop around for about 3-4 years and crew less than a year. But they are VERY active, and even without an emphasis on "First Class, First Year" they have a lot of new scouts getting to First Class within a year. While the movers and shakers are now starting to slow down due to MBs, the youth I've seen are still pumped and busting their tail.

[HICO_Eagle]

Never heard of this before and I think it's despicable. I'd be recruiting every Life Scout from that troop immediately ...

[wearrepair]

For Eagle92

I know that it is difficult when the very active scouters are trying to add requirements (time) to the advancement program. The lodgic is that if they add or take away from the requirements they no longer have the program set out by Scouting...they have their own program; not a "better" something just different. Your only real hope is from the scout office (district exec.) or leave the troop for a "real" BSA troop. Regards, Jim Wood

[Eagle92]

FWIW my son and I are not in the troop, yet anyway. The troop has had only 1 Eagle to date, and he transferred in when his dad was asked to start the troop. There were some challenges, not to this policy but leadership reasons, and some scouts did leave. When the SM was asked to step down, the son stayed long enough to get Eagle and left. I think that, and some of the under 16 Eagles that the IH and COR have seen elsewhere caused them to come up with the no Eagle BORs before 16. Again no problems at this time, especially since the hard chargers are slowing down as they now need to earn MBs, but this problem possibly could arise in the future.

 

Other than that policy the troop is awesome. They focus on putting Outing in Scouting, go camping every month, and have leaders who care enough about the boys to step back and let them make their own mistakes and learn from them, counseling them after the fact. with the exception of the 100 yards rule, I think even Kudu would approve of what they are doing.

 

EDITED Forgot to add, this policy is not to keep the scouts active in the unit longer, but to insure that they have the knowledge, ability, skills, and maturity to be an Eagle.(This message has been edited by eagle92)

[Lisabob]

"to insure that they have the knowledge, ability, skills, and maturity to be an Eagle."

 

Why couldn't they do the same thing by rigorously adhering to existing requirements? For example - make sure the boys really, truly, own the skills before signing off on T-2-1 requirements. Make sure PORs are fulfilled, and not just "held" for the minimum length with any warm body getting credit. Expect scout spirit to have meaning. Etc.

 

You said this is a fairly young/new troop. Here's what I can see happening. A couple of years down the road, the original folks will have moved on in life. New folks will have come in and will inherit the "no Eagles before 16" mantra, but completely divorced from the original logic behind it. At that point, it will become a problem in the troop, generating appeals and challenges, and causing rifts among the families that make up the troop.

 

Far better to actually follow BSA policy, and to go all out, than to put in arbitrary road blocks that can be warped out of all reasonableness.