Cubmaster Drama

[Riptyd]

We are a "parents of" charter org. We have A cubmaster who is out of control. Badmouthing other den leaders and committee members. My problem is that this person is also listed as IH and CM. our current flow chart is IH>COR>CC>Committee>CM>ACM>ACM>DL's This person has designated themself as the owner of the pack and has been verbally abusing othr leaders. I am the COR as elected by the "parents of" and am being asked to remove this CM. What do I do, when you consider that this person is also listed as IH. (She did this during our last recharter without the knowledge of the rest of the committee)She is also an ADL in the same den as the CC.

 

Any ideas will help.

[John-in-KC]

IH has the inherent authority to remove a COR. Welcome to why BSA discourages self-chartering. Your self-chartering organization has set itself up for explosive failure.

 

Call your District Executive and District Commissioner tomorrow. You have that authority as the COR. You need big and very local friends.

 

You've not told us the particular issues in this challenge. Maybe they are big at first, but can be solved with our proverbial friendly cup of coffee (listen/discuss/find a solution most will buy into). Maybe not. Not knowing what they are, we cannot help you dig deeper.

 

Maybe Beavah can untie this Gordian knot. With the information at hand, I cannot.

[Twocubdad]

Seems to me this is needs to be dealt with in terms of the chartered organization, not the BSA. What do the bylaws of the organization say? How was this guy selected to be IH? Maybe it's time for a corporate meeting.

 

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't illegal for the institutional head to be the cubmaster? I thought the only mutiple registrations are IH, COR and CC.

 

I agree that you need to involve your commissioner and/or district executive before the unit blows up entirely.

[Riptyd]

When our old charter decided not to renew we became a prents of. The cubmaster asked another parent to be CC in the intrim. Other parents volunteered to fill the remaining committee postions again as a way to keep the pack going. The CM in question, having the most knowledge of the group was very instramental in getting and fillining out the recharter docs. A sub committee was formed to write new s.o.p.'s. She has fought this sub committee the whole time. and they have never been completed. At the insistence of some of the DL's nominations were made and voted on by the parents (weak turnout on the vote) and the new committee was elected. Basically those who volunteered were legitimized by the vote. The CM however decided that she would remain the CM. In the last several months she has been making snide comments to other leaders and committee members, and one of our best leaders is now contemplating leaving because of the CM actions. The CM acts as if she is the top dog in the pen and is alienating a large contingent of the leadership. I have asked the CC to set ameeting between the 3 of us. (CM/IH, CC, and myself COR but he has not responded. (remember he was hand picked by the CM and they are both ADL's in the same den) I personally do not feel that she is exhibiting the type of values we are trying to teach the kids. Strong arm leadership, rudeness, poor uniform maintenance, and a my way or the highway attitude. I have spoken with the District and did not receive any real direction other than to warn me of the tension that would be created by "a failed coup attempt". I have a ACM, awrards chair, outdoor activity chair, and myself(COR) who have clearly stated that she should step down as CM. But how do we make her step down if she is the IH? I would like to retain her as IH (for her experience) but as for program delivery and harmony of the leadership there needs to be several layers of buffers between her and the DL's. I think that gives you more info to help me find a resolution Hopefully.

 

[Beavah]

Hi Riptyd,

 

Does your "parents of" chartering organization have any legal presence in any way? In other words, has it ever incorporated, or filed association paperwork with the state? Does it have any bylaws?

 

If not, I think yeh call a general meeting of the parents, and vote to remove the cubmaster, then notify the BSA. Quite simple, really. Be sure to change the checking account, his access to the pack account at the council office, notify the officials at the school where you meet and all that pronto.

 

And then yeh might consider association paperwork and bylaws, or charterin' with a more "permanent" organization.

 

If on the other hand you do have some sort of legal presence, you'll have to deal with the situation accordin' to your bylaws and the laws of your state. Of course in that case, if he appointed himself head of da organization contrary to those rules, yeh might hint that kind of thing could put him in all kinds of legal trouble and use it as a way of encouragin' his departure.

 

All that having been said, I always get just a bit skeptical whenever I hear things like "out of control", "verbally abusing other leaders" and such. Ninety eight times out of a hundred these are just adult disagreements where both sides are gettin' childish, and more than half the time the unit leader is in the right. And "verbal abuse" is a serious thing, eh? Usually describes somethin' that we take people's kids away for, or encourage women to seek shelter from their husbands. Usin' it to describe unrelated adults yellin' at each other probably isn't quite fair.

 

Perhaps if all parties toned down the rhetoric there may be some ground in the middle where yeh all put kids first? Just perhaps. Hard to tell from afar.

 

Beavah

 

[Beavah]

Yah, Riptyd, your follow-up message must have come in while I was typing mine.

 

Glad to see yeh backed off the "verbally abusive" rhetoric. Snide comments are just snide comments, eh?

 

What you're telling us now is that the CM has the most experience of the group, and that the district folks in your area essentially discouraged you from proceedin' on this course of action. From afar, that sounds like they view the situation differently than the way you see it. Now you're sayin' that you want this person to stay around for their experience even though they're demonstrating values that aren't appropriate for children.

 

Huh?

 

I think we're back to a notion that the adults are behavin' like children and gettin' into an ego shoving match. And that particular tango takes two. All parties should retreat to neutral corners and go spend some time in church prayin' and rememberin' what they're there for. The kids! Yeh all are in that "storming" phase that we talk about in training, eh? "Top dog" types can be great unit leaders. They insist on high standards, and tend to step in when they feel a leadership vacuum. My guess is yeh wouldn't have a pack but for this Top Dog doin' just that, eh? But top dogs do tend to be blunt and step on toes, and it takes a bit to figure out how to work with 'em. Yeh need other folks around who understand and work with their style, and provide some buffer for other adults.

 

My advice would be that if you proceed with an effort to oust the cubmaster, you're making a decision to destroy the pack. Is that price worth payin' to continue an adult ego fight?

 

How are the kids doing in the pack? Maybe if everyone started thinking and talking about them again, you'd see a way clear to a resolution.

 

Beavah

 

[MarkS]

There's always another unit. Let your feet to the talking and head for greener grass.

 

Scouting is supposed to be an enjoyable activity for the boys and adult leaders alike. Find a unit that has its act together and your sone likes and go for it.