Our guys made a disappointing choice

[BrentAllen]

Scouter760,

Notice the G2SS says "supervise." Some Scouts need to be supervised from a couple hundred feet away. Others can be supervised from a couple of miles away. You will also find in the Scoutmaster Handbook that properly trained and prepared patrols are allowed to go on outings without adult supervision, with SM approval. (pg. 22)

[Eagledad]

>>Cherry picking your best boys to get special treatment is viewed by all the outsiders as unfair, and a point of conflict for those sitting close on the fence. Without teamwork of the patrols, this problem will always arise in the troop.

[gwd-scouter]

Great post Barry. Why do you always manage to get my point across better than I do?

[Buffalo Skipper]

I looked into these definintions a few months ago (for the same reason) and clarified with my council Program Director (paraphrased):

 

BACKCOUNTRY--any location in which immediate access by emergency equipment is more than 30 minutes away (ie, the nearest road/access point is greater than a 30 minute hike)

 

TREK--any mobile outing more than 4 days.

[MarkS]

Yeah... I looked into the possibility of putting the bug in the ear of our older patrol that, with approval, they could go on outings without adult supervision. I called our council to ask a question about some language on their short-term camping reservation paperwork indicating that at least two adults are required for all activities on council property--including patrol outings. I pressed the issue and they contacted National.

 

Apparently, they found out that National is making a policy change to eliminate adult-free patrol outings. Look for changes in the Scoutmaster Handbook, Patrol Leader Handbook, G2SS, and other literature in the near future. Well, that's what I was told anyway.

 

So if you're an advocate of patrols going on outings without adult supervision, take advantage of it now. Sounds like this privilege is going away.(This message has been edited by MarkS)

[gwd-scouter]

MarkS - if that's true, it is disappointing indeed. Then again, I don't know of any Troop in our District that allows the boys to do outings on their own. We haven't yet either-at least not for a whole weekend. Our experienced guys may go off on a hike on their own, but they do end up at the same campsite for the night as the rest of the Troop. It's not because we wouldn't let them camp on their own, it's just that they've never asked.

[Stosh]

One has to look up what "cherry picking" means in order to understand it. To ad hoc the patrols at an outing is cherry picking, to select elite scouts for special considerations over patrol dynamics is cherry picking and for the most part most of this cherry picking is done by adults. Thus it's a rather easy assumption to make that such dynamics are not all that beneficial to a boy-led and or patrol-method emphasis in a troop.

 

Does that mean an older PL in a NSP can't go to Jamboree? Of course not, it means that for such an activity, the boys decide that in this situation things will be different. The new boys know they don't qualify. Does that mean any adult makes decisions, promotions, or plans for alternative outings on a regular basis has a long-term affect on the dynamics of the patrol method? Yep, it's cherry picking. Instead of the hypocracy of adult cherry picking, just open the option for a Venture Patrol and develop a program where specialty outings, us/them activities, and adult decisions are not a part. These types of things are very detrimental for any patrol method organization. One can't have it both ways. So what if it's a troop method program with ad hoc patrols? At least be honest about it and don't fool oneself into thinking its something else.

 

Stosh

[Eagledad]

So what I gather you are saying Stosh is that your cherry picking post didn't apply to this thread and you were really starting a new one. OK.

 

By the way, I knew what cherry picking meant, it just didn't make sense to the discussion.

 

Barry

[gwd-scouter]

Meeting last night went very well. The two boys I mentioned that were not experienced enough to go on the adult-free hike are planning, actually seemed excited, to go with the adults and less experienced Scouts. I spoke with them briefly while they were going to get tents/tarps out of the trailer and each said he realized he did not have enough experience to take the hike our three experienced scouts are taking. Good for them! A moment of growth for them both.

 

Stosh, I understand your point about cherry picking, but I do not think it fits our situation. The adults did not select who could go on the adult-free hike and who could not. We had a shake down trip last fall. It's true that our little troop does not have a well-developed patrol method because up until very recently we've operated as one patrol. So, what am I to do when three guys say they want to take a hike on their own as part of an overall troop backpacking trip? Tell them no because all the members of their patrol (all ten guys in the troop) can't?