Old School Troop

[awilson70]

Our Troop seems to be an old school troop where the leaders have been around for years and there is VERY little flexibility for change or to do things any other way than it's currently done. I have had a few run in's with the SM in the last few months that have left me wondering why I keep brining my kids back to this troop other than the fact they refuse to leave. (even for dear mom!) I believe our old school leaders have a hard time accepting women into the group and will seldom acknowledge the other moms and rarely listen to any ideas I present. I love working with the boys and had a blast for 6 years as a cubmaster. I love finding ways for troops to make more $$ - find cool new trips - outings and events. I see so much potential in these boys if they only had this info put into their hands. BUT I'm shot down every time I make suggestions. We have a hard time maintaining boys when they hit that 9th grade level. I think they are bored and I feel like there is so much to offer them if they only knew about the things out there avail. to them. My ideas have led to the SM yelling at me and belittling me during meetings - and I had my husband get involved this last time becasue I felt like the situation couldn't be handled by me alone anymore. I hate going to meetings now because I am positive I am going to get myself in trouble again for something he didn't like. I wish so badly that he would step down.

 

Well - mostly I needed to vent. My dist. rep. said there is little I can do unless the boys are being abused or harmed. I know as adults we are never going to get along with all the other adults - it's just so frustrating when you know you could really make an impact on a group but you are being held back by one person who offers no flexibility at all (

[Stosh]

I put in 13 years with a troop under these circumstances and finally gave up. I guess the adage: "You can't fight city hall." applies here. I am now in a different troop and loving every minute of it. I wish I had made the move years earlier.

 

Stosh

[SR540Beaver]

awilson70,

 

First off, welcome to the forums!!! Second, it sounds like you are still trying to be a Cubmaster in a Boy Scout troop. While I am well aware that boys often make choices different than ours as to which troop they will join, it is they who will be a part of the troop and not us. Let them be part of the troop they want to be a part of. If you force them to go to what you as an adult like, they will probably lose interest. In a boy led troop, the boys do their annual planning of where they want to go and what they want to do. In my neck of the woods, we refer to troops where they adults do this as adult led. There are ways to interject ideas without undermining the boy led concept in the troop. Discuss the ideas with your son and let him take it to his leadership. "His" idea might get shot down, but that is part of what boy led is all about. Most SM's like parents who support the program, but it is his job to oversee the program. There is a time and a place to approach the SM about ideas.....and during meetings is not usually the best time. While adults can sit in on our troop meetings, we do have a room for parents to visit and while away their time while the boys do their thing. I don't intend for this to be offensive in any way awilson. It is just that I have spent the past several years as an ASM for our new scout program where we usually get anywhere from 15 to 25 boys per year. I have seen a lot of seperation anxiety on the part of parents who thought that Boy Scouts was going to be a bonding experience for them like Cub Scouts was. It can be, but at more of a distance. You need to join as a committee member and find a place to serve. Let the SM and his ASM's oversee the boy led part of the program.

[Beavah]

Yah, awilson70. Cubs is fun, eh? Boy Scouts is different.

 

I think there are probably two things goin' on here. One is that you're right, an old guard of scouters can be a stodgy, old-fashioned bunch. They've found somethin' that works well enough for them and that they like doin', so they keep doin' it. Yah, and sure, they might be part of that cadre of folks who carries a quiet prejudice against women in this particular corner of a man's world.

 

I think yeh also need to entertain the notion that they're listenin' to yeh, but they have more experience in scouting at this level. In Boy Scouts the adults don't find more ways to make $$ or find new cool trips, that's somethin' that the boys do for themselves. We adults don't work with boys any more the way we did in cubs, we let older boys work with younger ones and step back a bit and advise. Good scout leaders in any troop would quite rightly reject some well-intentioned notions of moms on how to "improve" things, because our goal isn't to run better outings or more lucrative fundraisers. Our goal is to give boys some freedom to learn and grow and make their own choices.

 

The proof is in the pudding, eh? "I keep bringing my kids back to this troop because of the fact they refuse to leave." Wow! I'm willin' to bet most of us would pay big bucks for our kids to say that about an educational opportunity. That's high praise, and a huge value to your sons. One area of their education and growth taken care of ! Turn your energy and great ideas to others.

 

Sounds from afar like the program is doin' just fine. Relax, and let it work its magic. Your sons are growin' up, and they're goin' to keep gettin' more and more independent. That's a good thing, though they're not always as much fun as teenagers as they were when they were cubs!

 

Beavah

 

[awilson70]

I put in 13 years with a troop under these circumstances and finally gave up. I guess the adage: "You can't fight city hall." applies here. I am now in a different troop and loving every minute of it. I wish I had made the move years earlier.

 

Stosh

 

 

That is what the dist. rep. suggested as well. She said her son thrived when they moved to a different troop that was more active. He regained intersted. My 11 year old wants to be with his friends. My 14 year old wants to quit. When I offered a new troop, he said if I was going to make him go, he might as well stay where he is. I have so many good friends in this troop that I feel truely value my volunteerism in the troop. I transitioned 3 years ago with my 1st son and stepped up right away as Treasurer. I told the SM I would love to become more active when my youngest crossed over last year and stepped up as Committee Chair. That first year is very tough - to step back and watch. I think what it might come down to is a serious personality conflict between the SM and I. I am going to have the Unit Commissioner in to do the Committee Challenge with our parents. I hope it helps!!! I guess as parents (maybe some are with me on this) I have a vision for my kids and I help guide them in areas that I feel they need help in. I think our troop is so young (mostly 11,12,13) that they are not receiving the guidance they need from our adult leaders. (I don't interact with the boys during meetings - just the adults)

 

Do you folks have Parent meetings in your troop? We have Committee meetings after our Court of Honors. They invite the parents - but I think most do not stay because they think it's just for committee members.

[Beavah]

I guess as parents (maybe some are with me on this) I have a vision for my kids and I help guide them in areas that I feel they need help in. I think our troop is so young (mostly 11,12,13) that they are not receiving the guidance they need from our adult leaders.

 

Yah, that says a world of things to me.

 

One of the things boys need help with these days is learning how to learn and grow and negotiate obstacles without adult help and guidance. Eleven, twelve and thirteen aren't really that young in the grand scheme of things. Historically youth of that age would be out in an apprenticeship earning their keep .

 

I'm only bein' partly facetious, eh? If you travel internationally, one of the things that's quite easy to notice is that kids that age by and large are more independent, less "bored" when not being actively entertained, and less crybabies than our American youth. Yah, and if yeh believe the numbers, better educated.

 

Scoutin' is "old school" in that it doesn't buy into the notion that boys of that age need to be guided and helped all the time. Free play with a quiet purpose does wonders. There's no school like the old school!

 

As for your 14-year-old, there are lots of opportunities for youth out there, eh? What's he interested in? Scoutin' isn't everything, but I really believe every youth should find something. Something that's their own, not their parents'. Somethin' they can really engage in and grow through and try out making decisions and choices. Scouting's great, but so are theater and band and the robot club. Yeh shouldn't select "his thing" any more than you should select his wife.

 

Of course, yeh might find that he gets more into school extracurricular activities, where the professional staff will keep mom and dad much more at arms length than scouting.

 

Beavah

 

[AnneinMpls]

Sigh,

I am thinking you are well-intentioned, but perhaps not putting your talents to work in the right environment.

 

I am reminded of a person I had a hard time dealing with who is now in a different volunteer position and doing ok with it.

 

She would, quite frankly, meddle. Nothing was good enough for her, she always had ideas, lots and lots of ideas, of how to do things better. Never mind, she would bring them up at the most inopportune times, announce competing events right on top of already-planned events, and generally only had her own kids' best interests in mind - rather than a broader perspective of what was really best for the group as a whole.

 

A lot of it was due to inexperience...she would say things like, we should do *service projects* for the *community*. As if...never before in the history of mankind had anyone thought of such a thing. Umm, and we did tons of service! Then she would pick up on the current tagline of the organization, and pass the phrase off as if it were her very own unique discovery, and we should be dazzled by her brilliant perception of what the program could truly be if only...

 

This person was *hard to take*. A real pain in the patootie. and, she was brilliant at fundraisers. So that's where we put her - higher up, so she's only pestering adults, rather than doing her goofiness in front of youth.

 

Now, this person may or may not resemble the person you see in the mirror.

 

Keep things very basic - focus on a well-run and well-staffed troop committee. Focus on supporting the program that the Scoutmaster brings you from the boy leadership. Approach your position with the spirit of servant leadership. Help make your Scoutmaster's job *easier* - don't ever let it be said that you made his job *harder*. That would be a sure sign you are not doing the job you signed up to do.

 

Keep this in mind: It's boy scouting, not grownup scouting! All the cool opportunities you see dont mean sqwat if it's not developing the boys' leadership.

 

Another thing, dont ever do a sneak attack via the agenda thing either. Ive seen this person do it, and I've seen others employ this tactic also. It's a sure sign of a lack of confidence- be forthright. If you want ot have a meeting about a particular issue, name the issue so others can be as well-prepared as you for the meeting. Don't pull any "gotcha's", no mean surprises, no going behind someone's back to get the answer you want, and pulling it out when you want to score points. Check any and all of that kind of attitude at the door.

 

Be kind to your scoutmaster - he's probably doing a much better job than you imagine

Anne in Mpls

[Gunny2862]

Be kind to your Scoutmaster - he's just a volunteer too.

Or else my paycheck is running Waaaay behind.

 

Actually the PLC paid me last night when there was NO adult interaction in the entire election process last night. Wow! Yea!

[fleetfootedfox]

The BSA has always had trouble keeping boys after they reach high school. Thousands and thousands of Scouters have tried to figure out ways to retain boys past the age of 14 and unfortunately we usually fail. No need to get into all the reasons. The sooner you accept this, the sooner you can concentrate on other problems that are more solvable.

 

That said, if you do have a young troop like mine where the SPL is 12 years old, you are definitely going to have to be more hands-on than the ideal situation where you have a 16 year old in that job.

 

However, the others are right too that Boy Scouts is different than the Cubs. I would suggest that if you want a hand in finding fun things for the boys to do, you might want to volunteer for the Outdoor Coordinator position. If you are doing it just as a mom with no official job in the troop, then you're going to look like you are butting in where you don't belong.

[SMT224]

awilson70 -

 

I' not sure what you mean by "Old School"...? Do you mean "adult run"? Or that the Troop is solidly boy-led with the PLC and SPL leading Troop meetings and camping trips? If it is the former, that you have some solid ground to stand on to be concerned, and perhaps you and your hubby can work to make some changes in the Troop. If it's the latter, no worries.

 

Either way, I'd suggest joining the Committee in an official capacity and focus on a few specific areas to make the Troop better. If the Committee does not need you help, perhaps you could become a merit badge counselor. If the Troop really has no place for you, I'd be concerned - rarely does a Troop not need a willing volunteer.

 

Once you have settled in and found a place in the Committee or as a capable merit badge counselor, the SM and others may be more interested in your ideas. It sometimes takes time (years!) for the old guys to become comfortable with new parents that want to support the Troop. Perhaps they had some bad experiences in the past with parents who tossed out ideas expecting the Troop to jump at them then and there. As SM, I've had parents approach me in the middle of an activity with service project or activity ideas expecting me to implement them immediately. When I explain that anything we do has to be run through the PLC and Committee and usually needs to be put into the program a year in advance, they are frustrated that we can't be more spontaneous.

 

The bottom line - if the Troop has a good Scout-led program with a healthy PLC and the boys are engaged in outings and advancing at a reasonable pace - and your boys are happy there - I'd not worry at all, whether or not the old guys wanted my help.

 

[SR540Beaver]

In addition to the SM, ASM's and MBC's, here are the adult positions in our troop. By spreading the work out, no one gets TOO much power and no one gets burned out. Each position comes with a job description, responsibilities, training requirments and is a one year term that must be reaffirmed annually. No adult position takes any responsibility away from the boy led program as many of the jobs are mentoring or advising boys rather than doing the job for them. These positions are:

 

Troop Committee Chair, Secretary, Treasurer, Assistant Treasurer, Outings Coordinator, Advancement Chair, Registration and Membership, Fundraising Coordinator, Assistant Fundraising Coordinator, Equipment Coordinator (Adult Quartermaster), Board of Review Coordinator, Training Coordinator, Chaplain, Event Mentor (Specific Parents or Scouters), Adult Patrol Leader, Medical and Permission Forms Coordinator, Merit Badge Advancement Coordinator, Adult Award & Recognition Coordinator, Court of Honor Coordinator, Popcorn Kernel, Troop Webmaster and Communications, Merit Badge Fair Coordinator, Service Project Coordinator, Troop Order of the Arrow Advisor, Life to Eagle Advisor and best of all PARENT.

 

The parent job description reads as follows:

 

Encourage their son to participate fully in Scouting events and to make continual progress toward rank advancement.

 

Counsel their sons on appropriate behavior.

 

Ensure that scouts arrive at troop events on time.

 

Pick up scouts on time so that adult leaders do not have to wait.

 

Assist when possible in transportation of groups of scouts.

 

Assist where appropriate as merit badge counselors.

 

Participate in troop oversight as Committee Members, Assistant Scoutmasters, or other volunteer responsibilities.

 

Be willing to assist Committee Members in their duties.

 

Assist in fundraising efforts.