Scouts using the F word!

[SR540Beaver]

I'm going to beg to differ with those of you who think it is OK for scouts to use words such as frickin'. Yes, darn, shoot, heck, geez, gosh, etc. are also used and not looked upon as the same way. It is because they have become so common in our daily discourse that they have lost much of their regular intent. But the "cardinal sin" of word usage is the F word and therefore, frickin' also carries a different level of severity. Face it, a kid doesn't go around saying darn and shoot every other word in a conversation. Frickin' on the other hand seems to get thrown into just about every sentence for some kids. Let's set the frickin' tent up by the frickin' tree line to block the frickin' north wind so we won't be so frickin' cold. I see kids say sentences like this where I never see them say the same sentence with darn replacing frickin'. It simply is not scout appropriate. We correct our scouts anytime they let it slip in front of us. The scout oath and law isn't something to just be recited. The owrds have meaning. It is a guide to how we live our life. We are supposed to be different and make a difference. Acting like uneducated and uncouth slackards is not what we are trying to achieve. Will they talk that way around their friends away from earshot of the adults? Sure they will. We did to as kids. Do they need to learn that there are times and places where it isn't appropriate? Sure do! We don't relieve ourselves in public and we shouldn't do the same thing with our mouths in public.

 

I'm a little sensitive to this because our troop held a MB fair for the first time in many years this past weekend. Our charter organization graciously opened up their facilities for us to host 150 scouts from multiple districts. Right now it is under review as to whether they will allow us to do it in the future because of the actions and language of many of the scouts in attendance as witnessed by church members who were present. We were proud of our own scouts who were there because they were in their "home" and they know what the expectations are in how we treat our charter's property. Unfortunately, we had scouts there whose leadership thinks frickin' is just boys being boys.

[skeptic]

Yep, we, as adults, need to recognize that we have to draw a line as to what is acceptable in our units, and our own lives for that matter. The problem I see is that for whatever reason, too many people seem to think that we need to give youth a pass on things we really know are not acceptable, because they are just "testing the boundaries", or they are "just being kids", and other weak excuses. What it seems to mean to me is that far too many adults do not have the backbone to stand up to the kids and "draw the line" where it should be drawn. As scouts, they supposedly are working on being on a higher plane than many of their peers; they have the Oath and Law as guides through life, not just scout meetings and activities. We need to talk ourselves blue in the face, if need be, with the expectation that they toe a shorter line and uphold the standards found in scouting. Otherwise, why are we even bothering?

[SR540Beaver]

Interestingly enough, one of my former Troop Guides (16 year old Life Scout and former ASPL) used the F word in his status on facebook last night. I'm his friend on facebook and I saw it within minutes of him posting it. I sent him a private message and very kindly told him that what he does out there is public, we have a number of our younger scouts on facebook who look up to him and that his use of that word was inappropriate. He quickly changed it and apologized. We then spent the next 15 to 20 minutes PM'ing each other about how frustrated he is with his parents who he doesn't believe loves him and who had taken his phone away from him for being 10 minutes late getting home. I know his dad and assured him that I was sure his parents loved him and to keep in mind that they might have had a bad day themselves and over reacted. I also told him that the grass always looks greener on the other side of the fence and that he wasn't the only person who thought their parents didn't like, love or understand them. I told him that he was a good kid who was respected and well liked by everyone we knew mutually. In the end, I think he had settled down and thanked me for the conversation. Hopefully he will remember our talk the next time he gets frustrated and feels the need to utter the F word in anger. We are examples to even the strangers around us that we will never see again.

[FScouter]

Is he angry at his parents because they didn't give him a free pass for breaking his word? 10 minutes late should be OK, no prob? 15? 30? How about being safe and coming home 10 minutes early?

 

Or is he angry at himself for screwing up and losing the trust of his parents?

[fleetfootedfox]

When I was a kid, I had it so ingrained in me that I should not ever "cuss" that when a teacher wanted me to read a part in a play that used such words, I refused.

 

In fact, the churches I grew up in had all kinds of rules. However, we had no problem with using words like "shoot" or "darn" or "gosh".

 

This seems to me like a new phenomenon among people who are overly concerned about offending others and always being politically correct.

 

My son was accused by a teacher of taking the Lord's name in vain because he used the word "gosh", and he was really upset by that. He felt she was treating him unfairly, and I said, well at least now you know how she feels and you can void the problem in the future. I try not to be too critical of the teacher even if I do think she is a git.

 

Still, I think people need to lighten up a little.

 

 

[SR540Beaver]

fscouter,

 

Our conversation was private, so I won't go into a lot of details. This young man has always been a very quiet young man. I was one of his Jambo ASM's when I first met him in 2005 and I never heard him say a word the whole time. To hear his peers tellit, he is quite the comedian around the boys. My son and I joined the home troop he was in following Jambo as ours was folding. He spent 9 months serving as one of my TG's for new scouts a year or so back. Even then, he was a very quiet young man. Suffice it to say, our facebook PM conversation was the first I knew that there was any family turmoil. According to him, his parents are never happy with anything he does and very critical. I don't know if that is true or not. He says he dreads going home because of the atmosphere. Being acquainted with his dad, that was something of a surprise to me. He isn't a touchy feely kind of guy, but I don't know him to be a grump or grouch. I know his son better and he is a really good kid, never a problem at school or in the troop and is well liked. His use of the F word online was totally out of character for him. That was why I called him on it and that is what started our conversation. He was at the gym working out and lost track of time and was 10 minutes late calling them. As a result, they "jumped on him" when he got home and took his phone away as punishment. And with that, I have already said too much. The bottom line for me was that a good kid who doesn't normally behave the way he did, did so online and it became a teaching moment about how he is an example to others and his actions were inappropriate. The reason he did was somewhat immaterial.

[Beavah]

Yah, I reckon the lad is angry at his parents for doin' to him somethin' they'd never do to a "real" person, eh? Would I have a fit if Mrs. Beavah was ten minutes late? (if so I'd be havin' lots of fits ). If I were meetin' other family members at a gatherin', would I be upset about them bein' ten minutes late and cut 'em off from family communications? Do I tell George I'll never go golfin' with him again because he had to fix the john which made him 10 minutes late?

 

Da message bein' sent is one of arbitrary control, not one of love and compassion. I'm sure that's not what the man intends, but it's what his son is hearin' loud and clear. There's a courtesy and character issue here, but it isn't on the part of the lad.

 

In a similar vein, this whole language discussion is da same. I think sometimes adults who are interested in controllin' things make things into an issue when they're not. Yeh see it sometimes in advancement, when adults get all jacked up about somethin' or another. Now we're goin' out of our way to get our shorts in a twist over nonsense words? We're honked off because the kids aren't usin' vulgarity? That says a lot about character, eh?

 

Ours.

 

Bunch of randio-heads we can be sometimes.

 

Beavah

 

[skeptic]

Like many topics here, we are not privy to the complete picture. We are only getting the view, expressed through a secondary source, that the parents are being unreasonable and are upsetting the boy because it is an

on-going occurrence. On the other hand, we do not really know; was this the 5th time in a week that "Johnnie" was late by 10-20 minutes? Is he always late by a few minutes, and always has what would appear to be a reasonable excuse? We may not be getting the whole thing. I remember as a kid that I had my neighborhood side, and my in house side; and they were often complete opposites. Not saying this is the case, as we cannot really know. But let's not paint the parents (noted by the original poster to not seem unreasonable)with a broad brush of psychological abuse.

 

As far as the language goes, once a youth is past 10 or 11, they know the intent of a word, even if they substitute nonsense or alternate words. Context, tone, and attitude will often convey it as well. We need to try to make them aware that they are not fooling anyone, and that this is not a particularly good reflection on them to the majority of people.

 

It is always difficult to discern these things, especially from here-say and partial information.

 

JMHO

[SR540Beaver]

skeptic,

 

Thank you for bringing the thread back on track. My story was an illustration of a scout in our troop using the F word publically and how it allowed me as a leader to take time to get to know him better and have a teaching moment. Thew purpose of the story was not to analyze the family relationship. He is a good kid from a good family. Like many kids, he thinks his parents are to harsh. Like many parents, they think he acts irresponsibly. In his frustration and anger, he used an inappropriate vulgar word in a public forum to express himself. I merely gave him a friendly and gentle reminder in private that it did indeed reflct poorly on him and was a bad example to whoever might be watching him....young or old. Knowing this boy, I doubt that he will ever post the word on facebook again or at least think twice about it.

[Eamonn]

After reading what everyone has posted, I have come to the conclusion that I'm very much at fault for contradicting myself.

I do tend to pick my battles and at times am willing to take plenty of no notice about a lot of things.

Some words when used in certain ways can be very offensive.

I don't have any real problem with a Scout who is frustrated with something calling whatever it might be a "Fricking Thing" But I would be upset if anyone looked me in the eye and told me to "Go Frick Yourself".

The Ship members have been away at events where the food hasn't been that good, I wasn't upset when they informed me that they thought the food sucked. On the other hand I was upset when one Scout told another Scout to "Go Suck a big one!"

As a child there were some words that seemed harmless enough to me, but they for some reason upset my mother.

We never used the words Bum, it was always bottom, Belly was always tummy. Because they caused someone being upset we just didn't use them.

 

 

For some time at work I found myself using a lot of really bad language. I mean really bad!! I also found myself trying to justify this to myself by telling myself that I was doing this in an effort to communicate at the level that was needed. But when I sat down and really thought about it, I came up with the idea that I was not kidding anyone.

I was in fact guilty of not setting the kind of example I should be setting and was allowing myself to be brought down to a level that I was unhappy with.

I made a really strong effort to quit.

I thought no one would notice. I was wrong.

About a week back an inmate was caught doing something that he ought not to have been doing. I brought him into my office and we had one of our "Little Chats". He seen the error of his ways, but near the end of our chat he said that he was OK having me tell him about it, because I was a nice guy and didn't swear like the other instructors do!!

Needless to say I told him he was full of it!!

Eamonn.

[NEI263Beaver]

I had a beautiful woman that educated me in Soc/Psyc. She said simply... "If you need to use foul language you are not bright enough to think of another word".

[Kahuna]

I just came back from a walk with my dogs. I live in a middle to upper middle class neighborhood. Two scout-age boys (like 12) on bikes came up the street in conversation that could be heard a long way off. Their interchange went something like, "I don't know I can effing do that or effing not." "Yeah, eff that stuff, anyway, I'm gonna effing do whatever."

 

These were well dressed kids on expensive bikes who live in the neighborhood. They go to one of the best middle schools in an affluent county. They're not hoodlums and probably do okay in school. They might be scouts.

 

I was just thinking that probably every kid in their school talks like that, scouts included. When I was a kid, and dinosaurs roamed the earth, we used words like that, but not where any adult could hear us and not all that often.

 

I haven't been a Scoutmaster for 15 years, but I recall we heard a lot of foul language, generally on camping trips or bus travel. Usually we ignored it unless it was in our faces. God forbid if it was to one of us! We did, however, remind the boys often that we met in a church and such language was not appropriate within those confines. We also reminded them that when we were in public in uniform, we expected them to appear to be the angelic little beings we knew they were not. We pretty much got an understanding on that.

 

Today, I don't know what I would do. Foul language has never bothered me much. I was an Army brat and could talk like a GI by the time I was 14. I was a military guy and until I reached a rank at which it was no longer seemly, I pretty much gave and took with the best of them.

 

We do have a public image, though, and while I'm sure the public realizes they aren't little angels, they do expect a little higher standard from Boy Scouts.

 

BTW, I'm glad to hear there are other Galactica fans in scouting. I would have bet you'd hear "fraking" now and again. And the context of the show makes it clear it means just what it means.

 

Frickin'? I don't know what I'd do with that.

[SMT224]

Here is a recent article from the Blue Foundation relevant to this discussion...

 

Cussing, Cursing, Swearing, and Other Vulgarities

by Dick Rolfe, CEO - The Dove Foundation

http://www.dove.org/news.asp?ArticleID=174

 

Here is an excerpt:

"In recent years, society has become obsessed with the harmful effects of second-hand smoke while in complete denial over the destructive nature of coarse language. The F-bomb has become the new heck in our lexicon. What was once considered profane is now termed a mere expletive. Today, the names of God and Jesus are rarely uttered as respectful references to deities, but more frequently used to punctuate rebellious trash talk. It can be argued that this shift has contributed to a growing disrespect for God and the church. According to Proverbs 18:21, The tongue has the power of life and death.

 

"You may have noticed that profanity is showing up more frequently in PG movies. That is because the degradation of social morays is part of the fabric of the Motion Picture ratings system. According to Joan Graves, Chairman of the Classification and Rating Administration of the MPAA, The [ratings] system is designed to adapt to social change. She goes on to admit that, Language is rated much less harshly than it once was because there is so much language in our culture. Ms. Graves comments reinforce the tired old Hollywood axiom that, Movies reflect social behavior, they dont influence it.

 

 

 

 

[OldGreyEagle]

The Troop I serve had quite the language issue when I joined up with my son. The kids were talking what I considered quite the blue streak. I asked the established adults about it, and they said they didn't think it was all that bad. Then I started to point out when foul language started to fly and after a few hours, they agreed there was an issue. They had heard it so long, it didnt register with them. So, I challenged the Troop to only use a vocabulary that they woudl use in front of thier mothers, which worked pretty well until I heard one youth go off, when I mentioned his mother, he responded that his mother talked much worse. And when I talked to her, well, the scout was trustworthy, she would make a sailor blush. So, I changed my challenge. I asked that the youth only use words they heard me use. Now, that was a bit of pressure such as when I would hit my thumb pounding in my tent stakes, but I hearty gosh oh golly was all I did. I did notice a few youth leaning in, like the old EF Hutton commericals, to hear what I had to say. In a few months the language improved noticably. I commented on the language change to my son and he said not to be too proud as they still used foul language when the adults were not around. I thought about it and told him I was still happy. They had learned to censor themselves and that they knew the difference between acceptable words and vulgarity was the point I was trying to make.

[scoutldr]

Moray: (noun) Any of numerous chiefly tropical, brightly colored marine eels of the family Muraenidae that are ferocious fighters and commonly inhabit coral reefs.

 

(As long as we're discussing proper use of the language)