Scouts using the F word!

[gwd-scouter]

And, as George Carlin said, "shoot is sh*t with two o's." I must confess I am guilty of saying shoot.

 

Freakin' seems to be a word of choice around here, along with geez and crap. Let's not forget the ever popular darn-it. I never heard frickin until the TV show Scrubs. Elliott says frick to voice her frustrations.

 

Unfortunately, I've had to deal with a few fellas over the years that use the words that those above tend to replace. I'll wager all the boys know the complete vulgarity dictionary, but most have the good sense to censor themselves.

 

Then again, I'm reminded of a time I got in a good deal of trouble in sixth grade. Yeah, I was very naive back then, afraid I still am at times. A girlfriend had tried on my silver ring and it got stuck on her finger. I told her to 'screw' it to get it off. My teacher overheard and my mother received a call about my vulgar language. I had no idea what all the fuss was about. I was merely trying to tell my friend to twist the ring around her finger - you know, like screwing something in. Their overreaction taught me the alternate meaning of screw.

 

Mastication is wonderful and you won't go blind doing it. Gern, do you suppose anyone these days knows the definition of niggardly?

 

[Hal_Crawford]

I remember my dad describing someone as "a big shot; with a dot over the oh".

 

Hal

[scoutldr]

Niger....that's that bird seed my wife gets me to buy at Home Depot. Indeed, our language can be queer at times. I still see no harm in looking a word up in the dictionary...then if the meaning still fits what you are trying to express, go for it.

[Gunny2862]

Okay, (I can admit it)I have many hot buttons.

 

Language doesn't tend to be one of them, ABUSIVE language on the other hand or the same language directed at someone else may get there very quickly.

I really don't worry about a Scout having a "friggin' hard time" understanding some concept or getting a particular tent together or whatever, it's when they express their "friggin'( or stronger language) negative feeling towards another Scout or person that I begin to have issues.

 

As to language, yes, for me, it falls in the category of cotton-pickin and other like terms. If you are going to prohibit them then you should also police for proper grammar.

 

I will settle for the Scouts having a modicum of civility and decorum (by policing their more extreme language to the "cottin'-pickin" level) and attempting to live with out rancor towards each other.

 

On the other hand there are individuals (that I served with)that I simply have no deeper way of expressing my feelings towards than by saying that I love those M-F's corporately and individually. And if you were ever an Infantryman maybe you get what I mean by that...

Would I try to clean it up for the Scouts, sure, but it's going to be a whole lot wordier and I still probably won't get the whole idea across.

 

[Trevorum]

Echoing Lisabob:

 

Me: "Son, I really wish you wouln't use that kind of language. It's crude and offensive to many people."

Son: "Oh dad, that is so gay."

Me: "Huh?"

 

[FScouter]

What I'm hearing here is that even though some words may be crude and offensive to some, it's OK to use those words anyway, and dismiss those offended as being "out of touch".

 

Then what is the meaning of "A Scout is Courteous"? I thought it had something to do with being aware of the feelings of others, but I could be wrong.

[Hal_Crawford]

Situation Normal, All Fouled Up

[Gunny2862]

FScouter,

If I am offending you it is certainly not my intent, and I apologize.

 

However my experience has been that a line drawn that far out from what I perceive to be the issue will result in the slide of other lines. I'd rather draw a hard line and mean it than post signs that don't do anything other than warn that the line is coming along in a little while, almost there, you'll be there soon, just a few more steps...

 

I know of very few people who actually live in a world where they can afford to be offended by the level of speech we are talking about. While it's a great ideal, I do not think it is realistic to think it can be eliminated.

[asm 411]

I am pretty particular about the choice of words our Scouts use. I would like to think that if they can be offensive to anyone as Scouts should avoid them. The Scout Law dictates this in several ways which others have already pointed out.

 

How an ASM cured me -

 

During a "Personal Growth Agreement" (modern day Scoutmaster Conference) with an ASM about 30 years ago he looked me square in the eye. Then he said something like, "I don't like when people cuss. Do you know why?" My answer was something like "I don't know, it is not Scout like?" He replied "Although that is true that is not why I dislike when people cuss. What I think it does is show a lack of vocabulary which reflects a lack of intelligence. I know you are smart enough to find at least 25 more descriptive words to use in place of any cuss word. Why don't you show the world how smart you are instead of how stupid?" That pretty much put it to rest for me.

 

I have used this on several of the Scouts in our troop and it seems to still work to this day just as well as it did on me. The reason I think it works is because when you get right down to it, it is the truth.

 

We do our best work when we work one to one with Scouts.(This message has been edited by ASM 411)

[Eagle1982]

Fans of the new Battlestar Galactica have used "Frackin'" on campouts. I've heard FUBAR, popularized in Saving Private Ryan, used to describe food before.

 

Teenagers can make anything sound dirty and nasty if they really want to. I suppose we could just ask them to use fewer non-descriptive adjectives in their speech.

 

[CalicoPenn]

Interestingly enough, when the old Battlestar Galactica was on, Frack never caught on, even though it was used quite regularly by Starbuck - I'm thinking that had more to do with the nerd quotiant of the show than anything else though - back then, it just wasn't cool to admit you watched Battlestar Galactica, Buck Rogers, reruns of Star Trek, or any other science fiction show. Then came Star Wars - changed everyone's view of Science Fiction.

 

Trev - I've witnessed that same conversation. The most effective way to deal with it? Toss it right back at them (it works even better if you the kids know you have gay friends, or if the person responding is gay).

Example:

Teen: That shirt is so gay.

Gay man: As if a gay person would be caught wearing that rag.

Teen: Ummmmmmmm

[dg98adams]

asm 411,

Wow that's funny in your post.....

 

I had almost the same conversation when I was about 12.

 

But I had mine with my dad....I had dropped a "bomb" doing some work on the house.

 

All he said was, "You know something son", (he rareley ever called me that so I knew I was in trouble), "cussing is the crutch for the ignorant lame".....and then he turned back to what he was doing.

 

Made an impression on me that lasted for a long time.

 

Years later and after a bout in the service, my language had a more colorful flair to include several foreign "bombs".

 

It wasn't until I held my son and daughter as newborns in my arms that I remembered his comment.

 

I have had to make that "comment" to my son, a 13 y.o. Star Scout and a couple of his patrol buddies. Hopefully it will stick with them a while.

 

As a big Battle Star Galactica fan (then and now), "frak" is pretty tempting.

(This message has been edited by dg98adams)

[funscout]

A friend of mine had a very strict father who was a minister. He wouldn't allow his family to say any slang word, if it was a substitution for a swear word. That cut out pretty much every slang word you can think of... shoot, darn, dang, golly, gosh, gee, etc. She finally started saying, "oh naughty words, naughty words" as her substitution for the slang words.

[DeanRx]

Whats the big fricking deal? Its a substitue, a stand in. If you don't think the kids are using the mother of all cuss words when the adults aren't around, then you've really got your head in the sand.

 

They're trying to test boundries, they are trying to "be cool". They KNOW they can't get away with outright vulgarity, so they sub in words.

 

To suggest that a scout must abstain b/c it might offend someone and a "scout is courteous" is crazy. In this day and age, you pretty much can't open your mouth or state an opinion without the possibility of someone being "offended". The issue is IF it offends, the scout(s) are asked to refrain, and they ignore the request. THAT shows a lack of respect.

 

Case in point. My 8 y/o Wolf cub and a couple of his buddies were getting into trouble for using the word 'butt'. You know, butthead, buttuski, kick your butt.... any reason to say the word b/c it would get a rise out of the adults. So, we told them to knock it off. Now they have their own 'code' word - RANDIO which equals 'butt'.

 

So now its randio-head, I'll kick your randio, you smell like randio, etc.... everyone KNOWS what the heck it means. But, how do you stop your kid from saying a made-up word? They can say it at the grocery store in front of a stranger and the stranger has no idea what they are talking about - they just look like crazy kids speaking in tounge.

 

What if they all decided to say 'far-from-poopin' instead of 'fricking'. Is that word now off limits as well? As long as its amongst their friends and not directed towards others outside the group (i.e. adults, parents, teachers, grandparents)... what's the harm? They are trying to have an independent identity and part of that is their own language.

 

Should they use it in church? No. In the classroom at school? No. With other adults? No. Amongst their peers and on the playground and at the mall.... newsflash - they're already using the other F-bomb, so be happy they are willing to censor it down to PG-13 level.

[SMT224]

Thanks for all the responses on this linguistically interesting subject. How we use language says much about our culture - the words we use and when we use 'em.

 

All this reminds me of a discussion I had with my boys several years ago... I was urging them to do a good job cleaning the basement, and said, "Clean that basement but good!"

An eruption of laughter was followed by, "Butt Good!!??" "As clean as a butt?" "Butt clean??!!" "As clean as a butt?"

Last time I ever used that expression!